371–380 of 748 posts
> How large is the Flutter team, today? Google doesn't publish this information, but my guess is that the team is about 50 people strong. > That's 50 people serving the needs of 1,000,000. Doing a little bit of division, that means that every single member of the Flutter team is responsible for the needs of 20,000 Flutter developers! That ratio is clearly unworkable for any semblance of customer support. This is a we…
Python is an engine, flutter is the whole car.
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Based on the article's premise getting that merged is the problem, not fixing code.
right, making maintainers happy is part of that work.
One big problem, I think, it may not be visible all of the test infrastructure if your outside google. Don’t know. Gerritt is its own world and googlers live there not in GH (it appears).
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Flutter in Kotlin instead of Dart would have killed ! Alas. Hopefully, Kotlin Multi-Platform holds up as good as Flutter has (the rendering architecture based on Skia seems similar between the two frameworks).
Yes, I agree, trying to use Kotlin instead of Dart would have killed Flutter. I've been hearing about Kotlin multiplatform just as long as flutter, and writing Kotlin since 2019. Kotlin is a horrible daily driver. I worked on Android for Google at 7 years, and maybe it'd have a better chance if it didn't win internally. As it stands, there's too many organizational boundaries created, and each organization holds itse…
C# , NodeJS, Python and rarely Java( had a rough year), pay my bills.
Flutter/Dart doesn't. If you know someone hiring a Flutter developer I'm 100% down to interview.
I don't hate Kotlin, it feels like Google's answer to Swift( although Java was never as hard as Objective C). I even built a small project with it.
Can we at least agree it's weird Google is trying to promote 2 different languages for multiplatform development?
Let me compare Unity to Flutter for a bit. When Unity jobs are hard to come by, I'm still an OK C# dev.
Flutter/Dart doesn't offer they same freedom. Say what you want about Microsoft, but C# can essentially do anything. Including keeping me employed.
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I can appreciate that as a developer, but as a user I don’t particularly care that some company wants to ship identical looking apps on every device under the sun. I would prefer the apps I use to work and behave in a consistent way, using the same platform idioms I am used to. The software available and how it works was a large part of the reason I chose the platform I did. Of course, I recognise that, a. most peopl…
Only on HN do I hear anyone talking about platform native controls versus unified UI across devices. I have not once heard of such a complaint in the real world and indeed, I have more often heard users wanting a unified UI over one that changes with each platform, simply because these days we have multiple devices where we expect apps to work the same.
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> Linux is a kernel project, Is that useful pedantry? From context, you really think that's my confusion here? I didn't include *BSD either, but it isn't any different for the relative handful of people using that for a desktop system. > Win32 is the native GUI toolkit on Windows. Winforms is a .NET wrapper to it. There isn't any debate to be had there. Except for Microsoft's numerous attempts to supplant it and the…
>Is that useful pedantry? From context, you really think that's my confusion here? I don't know what could possibly confuse anyone about the role of GTK and QT in the Linux ecosystem.
And GTK3 apps of which there are plenty do not appear native in a modern GNOME desktop much more so than a decent Qt app does.
The thing is that people in the real world talk about Linux support for an app, as in Desktop Linux support, and the only common denominator there for years was basically X11. I have heard exactly no one ever ask, oh when is that app going to be available for KDE or GNOME. For example, to take something recent here, do the people writing the Zed editor promise a particular DE support - no it's available for "Linux."
As to earlier mentioning distros - for a GUI app, there’s more pain from intra-distro variation than inter-distro, both across configurations and supported versions.
Now the big thing, the even bigger thing is probably native Wayland vs X11, but no one says, oh vendor will you please bring your app to KDE or GNOME, specifically. 99% of the time you are happy if you get anything at all. So the concept of native on Linux (Desktop Linux) just isn't something usually worth discussing.
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I don't have access to any devices with Douyin on it, so I cannot confirm current usage. My knowledge of their usage is from discussions with ByteDance some many years ago when I was in charge of the Flutter project at Google. At the time they were using Flutter in 50+ applications (probably most of them internal), including Douyin (TikTok for China) as well as physical hardware kiosks on their campus, web apps, etc.…
I just tested Douyin 23.5 from 2022[0] and it does not have the two finger scroll bug.[1] It is of course possible they were carrying their own patch for it all this time but that seems unlikely. I doubt they are using Flutter or if they did it must have been a long time ago. [0] https://douyin.en.uptodown.com/android/download/87248716 [1] https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/11884 - click on the search button i…
I wouldn't say its unlikely they carried a patch for it, I just wrote a framework patch that I apply at build time in CI and locally.
I refuse to sideload arbitrary APKs, especially from bytedance. I feel bad because that is irrational, you did, and it'd be really helpful if I did and just did this myself, but, you should install FlutterShark and check: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fluttersha...
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I would consider both GTK and Qt native on Linux.
So that means one has to target both GTK and Qt to be native on Linux. Fat chance of that on anything but yet another music player or other relatively trivial UI app. In any event, that still doesn't answer what it means to be "native"? And my point is I think most definitions are dumb or useless. If I'm running a GTK desktop, Qt apps are generally not "native" no matter how much theme fuckery one tries. Native can a…
> So that means one has to target both GTK and Qt to be native on Linux.
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Yes, I agree, trying to use Kotlin instead of Dart would have killed Flutter. I've been hearing about Kotlin multiplatform just as long as flutter, and writing Kotlin since 2019. Kotlin is a horrible daily driver. I worked on Android for Google at 7 years, and maybe it'd have a better chance if it didn't win internally. As it stands, there's too many organizational boundaries created, and each organization holds itse…
I'm going to be honest. C# , NodeJS, Python and rarely Java( had a rough year), pay my bills. Flutter/Dart doesn't. If you know someone hiring a Flutter developer I'm 100% down to interview. I don't hate Kotlin, it feels like Google's answer to Swift( although Java was never as hard as Objective C). I even built a small project with it. Can we at least agree it's weird Google is trying to promote 2 different language…
Re: multiple frameworks, I worked at Google and would argue I know as much as anyone does exactly what happened there, so I can't agree it's weird, per se. Handwaving, I'd say that's because the situation seems more 'certain' or 'settled' to me, for good reasons, but ones not worth getting into.
There's absolutely tons of threads to unpack in your comment, I wish we were in person.
Speaking generally, based on observation you gravitated most towards discussing qualities of a job one might or might not get:
I essentially left my job at Google for no paycheck, partially because Google x Koyaanisqatsi, partially because I just couldn't imagine having to go back to write Kotlin and/or Java day to day and being criticized either way. That being said, it's deflating seeing Flutter job listings after getting into this whole industry from iOS dev. Thing with Flutter jobs is there's tons of low priced job seeking competition that are smart as hell.
That's because it is unusually effective in environments where people can't afford a Macbook only for iOS dev, and at this point in its lifecycle, it self selects for people who get experience with new frameworks
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Yes, I agree, trying to use Kotlin instead of Dart would have killed Flutter. I've been hearing about Kotlin multiplatform just as long as flutter, and writing Kotlin since 2019. Kotlin is a horrible daily driver. I worked on Android for Google at 7 years, and maybe it'd have a better chance if it didn't win internally. As it stands, there's too many organizational boundaries created, and each organization holds itse…
I'm going to be honest. C# , NodeJS, Python and rarely Java( had a rough year), pay my bills. Flutter/Dart doesn't. If you know someone hiring a Flutter developer I'm 100% down to interview. I don't hate Kotlin, it feels like Google's answer to Swift( although Java was never as hard as Objective C). I even built a small project with it. Can we at least agree it's weird Google is trying to promote 2 different language…
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I just tested Douyin 23.5 from 2022[0] and it does not have the two finger scroll bug.[1] It is of course possible they were carrying their own patch for it all this time but that seems unlikely. I doubt they are using Flutter or if they did it must have been a long time ago. [0] https://douyin.en.uptodown.com/android/download/87248716 [1] https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/11884 - click on the search button i…
Flutter two finger scroll "bug" is gone. I wouldn't say its unlikely they carried a patch for it, I just wrote a framework patch that I apply at build time in CI and locally. I refuse to sideload arbitrary APKs, especially from bytedance. I feel bad because that is irrational, you did, and it'd be really helpful if I did and just did this myself, but, you should install FlutterShark and check: https://play.google.com…
Why is "bug" in scare quotes here? It was most definitely a bug.
>I wouldn't say its unlikely they carried a patch for it, I just wrote a framework patch that I apply at build time in CI and locally.
The actual fix was pretty involved. I doubt a large company like Bytedance would want to carry around extra patches at the gesture level that make the dev cycle more difficult. Having one person carry a patch on their local machine is a different story.
Anyway, the Bytedance blogpost says only 200 devs are using Flutter which would make no sense if it was used in Douyin, and LibChecker[0] returns no results for libflutter.so.