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Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

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Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#371

Post by di4na »

AlanYx wrote: post #74
di4na wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are getting this wrong. Basically the framework, like the Shield before, is the Commission trying to show "look, we fixed it". Sadly, for the previous two times, the ECJ pointed out after the fact that no framework can fix the lack of data privacy law in the US, and that as such, the Shield, just like its predecessor, was not allowing what it claimed to do. The Framework has not been tested in the ECJ so far, but…

Thanks. So basically the new framework hasn't accomplished anything that can be relied upon when architecting a system to reduce the risk of GDPR compliance issues?

Depends who you talk to.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#372

Post by silent_cal »

creesch wrote: post #352
silent_cal wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you are on the internet which America invented, on an American website, complaining about how America is unfair, while they pay you billons of dollars in fines.

> Here you are on the internet which America invented Oef, another poorly researched, oversimplified take on things. I'll throw you a bit of a bone, the prototype internet or the precursor to it is indeed mostly a US invention. The modern day internet has been shaped by many international contributions from a variety of sources. Tim Berners-Lee is an English computer scientist to give an obvious example. Not to menti…

I didn't say that America "shaped" the internet, I said that America invented it, which is a fact that you've admitted.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#373

Post by max51 »

returningfory2 wrote: post #319
vanviegen wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that exactly the intended effect? Otherwise, why wouldn't BigCorp just ignore any inconvenient laws?

I don't understand, are you saying the intended effect of these laws is that non-EU countries don't enter the EU market?

The intended effect is that they follow the law, it's really not that complicated. Why do people assume that US-based companies have this inalienable right to break any law they want in every country around the world and that we all have to cheer for them when they do it?

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#374

Post by silent_cal »

gman83 wrote: post #340
silent_cal wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

All governments are funded by "taking it from someone else", usually in the form of taxes. Member state contributions, VAT income, and customs duties provide over 90% of EU funding. These fines of companies are a drop in the bucket, not the main way the EU finances itself.

I don't dispute any of this

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#375

Post by silent_cal »

creesch wrote: post #336
silent_cal wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of like an ambulance-chasing lawyer. Yeah the driver at fault did real harm and owes money to the victim. But the lawyer is not a selfless justice crusader - he's looking for a payday. That's how I see the EU in these cases.

Sorry, you are not really making a better case for your argument. The budget of the EU largely comes from other places. Fines like these don't even register on there meaningfully. That alone should tell you enough.

The fact that a 290 million euro fine isn't considered meaningful does tell me a lot.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#376

Post by creesch »

silent_cal wrote: post #375
creesch wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, you are not really making a better case for your argument. The budget of the EU largely comes from other places. Fines like these don't even register on there meaningfully. That alone should tell you enough.

The fact that a 290 million euro fine isn't considered meaningful does tell me a lot.

You aren't even trying, are you? It is not that meaningfull within the overall annual budget of the EU. If your take that they are just doing it for the extra cash was even remotely true they'd need to fine a whole lot more companies than they are doing now.

At this point I am sure that you are either:

- Trolling. In that case, good on you I guess.

- Really are not trying and not willing to try either. Which is a shame, mostly for you though.

Either way, it is not worth it to further respond to you. As in both scenarios you will just respond with another half backed goalpost moving response.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#377

Post by AlanYx »

mananaysiempre wrote: post #286
AlanYx wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that easy really. Several European countries have FISA s.702 functional equivalents that enable intelligence to get orders for interception of personal information on servers and entities within their legal jurisdiction. (e.g., The French Law on Intelligence and the German BND Act) It's easy to say that the US should just scrap s.702, but unless it's reciprocal with Europe scrapping their interception powers…

Hm. I was aware that French law was kind of awful on this, but never investigated the specifics. As, say, a non-EU person, would I be able to bring suit to a French court (and, if that fails, to the CJEU) regarding foreign-intelligence eavesdropping violating my privacy rights? (AFAIU the US answer is that if I’m a foreigner on foreign soil I don’t have any of those).

Yes, you could bring a suit if you knew about the interception. However, like FISA s.702, intelligence collection warrants under the French LI and German BND are generally secret, so most targets have no knowledge they are under surveillance. All three pieces of legislation have an oversight mechanism in terms of oversight bodies who have access to secret warrants and are supposed to ensure that they are being used appropriately.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#378

Post by max51 »

andersa wrote: post #366
vanviegen wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily, but it should "change the calculus of launching an existing product in Europe", factoring in privacy laws. Either don't launch, or make sure that your product complies.

It isn't possible for an American company to actually comply.

That's not a EU problem. If the US puts laws in place that prevents their company from expending overseas, that's a problem that Americans need to fix.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#379

Post by NicuCalcea »

silent_cal wrote: post #265
StrLght wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternative question: has breaking European laws become a major American industry?

If it is then Europe doesn't seem too upset about it. How could they be when it pays them so well?

It really doesn't pay that well, these fines are a drop in the ocean at the scale the EU operates at.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#380

Post by diggan »

childintime wrote: post #181

Funny they are being fined in the Netherlands, because Uber is almost invisible there, as regular taxis have been protected. I don't have accurate data, but it's at least 15€ per inhabitant, so it seems like a very very steep fine. I can't imagine how much this is per driver, €25000? It seems the dutch regulator is saying "why don't you just go away?". The feeling is likely mutual.

> because Uber is almost invisible there, as regular taxis have been protected

Uber is almost invisible there because they continue to blatantly break the law, and even when told to stop, they continue like nothing happened. (https://www.wsj.com/articles/dutch-authorities-raid-uber-off...). This seems to be just another case of the same hubris.

Of course Uber faces pushback when they act like that.

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