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Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

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Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#371

Post by asadotzler »

twoodfin wrote: post #363
pahkah wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very least, spinning off individual businesses prevents self-preferencing. Google can right now leverage its dominance in one area to increase market share in another. For example, if I load my GMail account in a browser other than Chrome, Google will "helpfully" suggest that I change my default browser to the "recommended" Chrome. This behavior makes it harder for upstarts to get a foot in the door across a w…

I’m frankly shocked that Google continues to think the juice on that annoying, constant Chrome-in-Gmail popup is worth even a marginal additional anti-trust attention squeeze.

It's worth a lot. People regularly fall out of Google's funnel and they must get them back. You think every user that switches to Firefox is a user Google's willing to walk away from?

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#372

Post by dwattttt »

sushid wrote: post #367
t0mas88 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is offering a free browser, while making a good browser costs money. They are subsidising that by their huge ad-business. And by no surprise, their browser is the only major one that has no privacy protection features and last month decided to abandon the plan to deprecate cookies and tracking. That browser is competing with someone like Opera (used to be a paid for product) and Mozilla in an unfair way, becau…

But Opera and Firefox and others are all free browsers as well. I agree with the parent commenter that its not exactly a monopoly in the traditional sense. It's not even the default browser on Mac or Windows.

> Opera and Firefox and others are all free browsers as well

And yet browser development costs money. If browsers cost money, you could make a better product and compete by selling it, but when an incumbent is giving theirs away for free?

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#373

Post by KaoruAoiShiho »

zamadatix wrote: post #313
nox101 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users are not Chrome's customers. Even if Chrome is separated into a separate company that would still be true. Users are unlikely to pay for a browser when every OS comes with a free one. Some companies that want to be the default search (unless the gov bans that) or, some companies that want to be the default new tab page, would likely be the actual customers An exception might be Chromebook users. It's not clear h…

Right now the main paying user of Chrome is Google as a tool to deliver product integrations and guarantee browser based ad delivery. It's just that all of that is seen as internal expense in developing Chrome instead of an external source of revenue from Chrome. If Chrome were split off the main paying user of Chrome would probably be large enterprises and educational institutions - that'd be a massive change. I'm n…

Can you explain what large enterprises and educational institutions would be paying Chrome for?

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#375

Post by m463 »

missedthecue wrote: post #334

I think we need a better term than monopoly, that separates it from what people usually mean which is 'the best product'. I literally cannot think of any sort of product or service with lower switching costs than internet search. Typing bing.com takes 0.8 seconds and costs $0. Hundreds of orders of magnitude easier than switching to a different railroad if only one goes through your town. Google is a big ass company…

> Google is a big ass company and enjoys outsized market share because people choose to use it.

but not really. the situation is similar to auto-voting the incumbent in every goverment election each november.

that is not ok.

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#376

Post by layer8 »

warkdarrior wrote: post #342
layer8 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web search is certainly something that should be a public institution.

Make sure to search only for government-approved topics.

Public doesn’t imply government-operated, and privacy and data-retention laws exist.

The bigger practical problem is that we want it to remain a global service and not become a national one.

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#377

Post by asadotzler »

booleandilemma wrote: post #322
dmonitor wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s be real: Windows is practically a monopoly. They use it to push their online services in ridiculous ways. I doubt >10% of the current Edge userbase is through conscious decision. Teams obviously cannot compete on its own terms with any competitors, its prevalence only comes from being part of Microsoft’s all in one office suite package that no individual company can compete with.

I don't think it's true that Windows is a monopoly anymore. You could always get a mac. Most people I know use macs, in fact. I still use Windows but I'm in the minority. I tried going to Linux earlier but I still feel Windows has smoother performance.

Windows is 60-70% of US PC usage. Mac is 20-25%.

Globally, it's even more lopsided with Windows at about 75% and Mac at about 15%.

Hard to say Windows isn't a monopoly.

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#378

Post by bedhead »

missedthecue wrote: post #334

I think we need a better term than monopoly, that separates it from what people usually mean which is 'the best product'. I literally cannot think of any sort of product or service with lower switching costs than internet search. Typing bing.com takes 0.8 seconds and costs $0. Hundreds of orders of magnitude easier than switching to a different railroad if only one goes through your town. Google is a big ass company…

There needs to be some remedy for these handful of companies that manage to break the game like they reached the kill screen in Pac Man.

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#379

Post by xp84 »

dwattttt wrote: post #372
sushid wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Opera and Firefox and others are all free browsers as well. I agree with the parent commenter that its not exactly a monopoly in the traditional sense. It's not even the default browser on Mac or Windows.

> Opera and Firefox and others are all free browsers as well And yet browser development costs money. If browsers cost money, you could make a better product and compete by selling it, but when an incumbent is giving theirs away for free?

Yes! The situation that has been our world since MSIE went free over 25 years ago.

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#380

Post by asadotzler »

arder wrote: post #188
lolinder wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google isn't a particularly old company it hasn't had a strangle hold for long and it doesn't look like it's business is unassailable. So why go after it at all. On the other hand, the anti-monopoly moves have been slow and ineffective. When Microsoft finally got hit... Google was incorporated 26 years ago, in 1998. Microsoft was founded in 1975, 26 years before US v. Microsoft was decided. Google is exactly as old…

Well to push the point a little - Imagine that Microsofts anti-trust case was in 2008, not 1997 and the iPhone was out and clearly gaining traction. Suddenly Microsoft doesn't look like some perpetual juggernaut. That's where we are with Google today - we can see the product that's likely to displace it. Windows is still big today, but it's not anywhere near the strategic force it was in the early 2000s. In the same…

Microsoft still owns 70% of the PC market 15 years after your hypothetical and is still a "perpetual juggernaut" in that market. Because you don't care about that market and think smartphones are more important doesn't mean the rest of us stop caring about PCs and the harm Microsoft's ongoing monopoly in that market creates.
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