Live data from Hacker News

Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

bloomberg.com

371–380 of 761 posts

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#371
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. People use Google because it's the default, not because they will go out of their way to keep using it. The minute Apple changes the iPhone default, all but a few iPhone users stop using Google.

Not from what I've seen - I often see people searching Bing for Google then searching on there, not knowing how to change the default.

Of course defaults mean very little for tech-savvy people. An average 50 year old who just got a new laptop isn't going to change the search engine because Bing was the default.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#372

[flagged]

I'm under the impression chrome still uses k-anonymity to check leaked passwords and never sees your password (or the hash of it). Here's a discussion (2019): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21758388

  What Google does see is a hash-prefix of your username, to narrow down the encrypted data set of compromised credentials being returned to your Chrome instance.
We don't have the same background, but I don't think that it is ok at all.

Sending even a few bytes of hash about your username is quite a lot of data.

That might be enough to weaken your credentials, but mostly think about what they can do or 3 letters agencies can do with this info that is streaming straight to US:

Even without certitude of the exact account, we can know that you connected to a website with a credential that matched a defined hash. We can know that you connected regularly with it, probably time when you connected as the check is performed most of the time when you are connected, we can corroborate that with other access logs. We know that you were not using other usernames that you provided that are not marching this one based on hash.

As an example, US is asking users to list all their social accounts, I think that it is optional but they would like very much to make it mandatory. Then, imagine that they compare all the username you provided with the hash of passwords you checked regularly on your device to say: you probably have other or alternative accounts that you don't declare.

All of that in a stealth surprising way for users that asked nothing. It's a lie to say that it is protecting "your browsing experience". It is unrelated. You can not browse to a website and tour account is still hacked. Website owners are free to report to users leaks. Users are free to use password manager with such features.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#373
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they will allow a level-playing field and allow bids like in a marketplace?

Why would anyone bid for being the search engine in a browser with <4% market share and falling? Everybody will want to be on iPhone/Safari, Android/Chrome, and Windows/Chrome or Edge.

4 percent of the browser market is still well over a hundred million users.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You chose to buy a platform with severe restrictions. It's not like we can blame monopoly power, because Android phones are easy to get. It was legitimately your choice - it seems like for some reason you wanted the restrictions.

Compromise on your computing freedom, compromise on your attention and privacy, when both providers are out to fuck you it doesn't really feel like you have a meaningful choice to make. Asking for an environment where fucking your customers isn't allowed feels like the only option.

Many Android devices can be de-Googled. Also, let's not pretend Apple isn't spying on your iCloud account to protect the children.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You chose to buy a platform with severe restrictions. It's not like we can blame monopoly power, because Android phones are easy to get. It was legitimately your choice - it seems like for some reason you wanted the restrictions.

That's the power of monopoly, or in this case duopoly. You don't get to choose to not buy into the platform

But you do. You get to choose to buy into the other platform, which is significantly more open. If for some reason you choose not to, then you obviously don't value openness very much.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#376
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of these are a bit different in scope to some of your points, but here a few things I believe aren't really covered: Predatory hiring: Hiring key employees from competitors primarily to weaken them rather than to benefit from the employees' skills. Patent abuse: Using a large portfolio of patents to stifle competition rather than to protect legitimate innovations. Regulatory capture: Using influence to shape reg…

Most of these don't make much sense: Predatory hiring - banning this would be preventing competition in the labor market and be extremely bad for workers. Also unproveable. Regulatory capture - the government regulators are not going to sue themselves Killer acquisitions - already illegal to engage in acquisition to form monopoly Data hoarding - the government can't force you to share things for free. That violates t…

> Also unproveable.

No? I'm always surprised by what corporate chats and emails reveal.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You chose to buy a platform with severe restrictions. It's not like we can blame monopoly power, because Android phones are easy to get. It was legitimately your choice - it seems like for some reason you wanted the restrictions.

Choice seems to be an euphemism for everything related to private IT: For PCs there is Microsoft vs Apple. (I use Linux, but that's not for the broad masses currently.) For phones you either pay a premium to enter the Apple walled garden or you prostitute your digital life and get spied on by Google and its advertising cancer. What would we say if there were only 2 car makers, 2 grocery chains, 2 companies building h…

> What would we say if there were only 2 car makers, 2 grocery chains, 2 companies building houses?

We'd argue endlessly because of pedantry over 'monopoly', whilst the oligopolists sell us down the river.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#378
I still struggle to see the harm, or what a remedy would aim to fix. Of all the possible antitrust fights to pick (Comcast, Apple, Meta, etc.), I'm not sure this would even make my top 10.

Google search is still the best out there. If you want to use a another web search, the switching cost is lower than almost any other product/service (e.g. compared to OS, cell phone network, ISP, etc.). Competitors like Microsoft, Apple, and Meta have ungodly amounts of money, but have barely tried in web search.

Despite Google being a more open and better web citizen than most other players, they have still been hit with actions on the Google Play Store and search. It's hard to make sense of.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#379
post #237

It’s called out that Google pays Mozilla to have Google be the default search engine in Firefox. I worry this ruling will lead to Google ceasing those payments, effectively killing Mozilla as a going concern.

Mozilla is effectively being subsidized by Google for the sake of an illusion of browser competitions. If the remedy enforces "a reasonable level of bid" for these kinds of auctions, Mozilla may go bankrupt within 5 years. I hope the court won't include Mozilla in scope since it doesn't really make a dent on the market dominance.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compromise on your computing freedom, compromise on your attention and privacy, when both providers are out to fuck you it doesn't really feel like you have a meaningful choice to make. Asking for an environment where fucking your customers isn't allowed feels like the only option.

Many Android devices can be de-Googled. Also, let's not pretend Apple isn't spying on your iCloud account to protect the children.

Which store can I buy these de-google’d phones at with support? Also your second statement is just factually incorrect.
Post reply on HN