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Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming from 737 MAX crashes

cnbc.com

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Re: Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming from 737 MAX crashes

#371

Post by SJC_Hacker »

swarnie wrote: post #150
zarzavat wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. The first crash was negligent design of a technical system. The second crash was murder. The regulators are also culpable since the design of the system was in the public domain before the second crash and they did nothing about it.

> The second crash was murder. No civilised justice system in the world is getting to murder from these facts. Manslaughter via negligence if you're feeling really lucky

> No civilised justice system in the world is getting to murder from these facts.

Felony murder statutes disagree.

Re: Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming from 737 MAX crashes

#372

Post by 5636588 »

credit_guy wrote: post #354
deeth_starr_v wrote: post #298

From the article: Paul Cassell, a lawyer for victims’ family members, said he plans to ask the federal judge on the case to reject the deal and “simply set the matter for a public trial, so that all the facts surrounding the case will be aired in a fair and open forum before a jury.” Hard to disagree

> Hard to disagree But hard to agree too. How exactly can you prevent someone from pleading guilty?

Judge needs to approve a plea deal. See Hunter's Biden case.

Re: Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming from 737 MAX crashes

#373

Post by mejutoco »

tsunamifury wrote: post #352
ActionHank wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it does go to trial it would be great for people behind this to be directly tried for their criminal actions as well. The reality is that a company is on trial for the actions of individuals and if there is no follow through on that it will not change anything. I doubt it goes to trial as I am 99% sure that the judge will rubber stamp the whole thing because the US is a corporate driven hellscape where peasants ar…

You really want the engineer who was last on the line of decisions to go to jail? Because that’s how this will go.

> it would be great for people behind this to be directly tried for their criminal actions as well.

How did you jump to engineering directly from this sentence?

Re: Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming from 737 MAX crashes

#374

Post by its_ethan »

isolli wrote: post #242
sumedh wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have to dismantle a company before it changes these kinds of deep-rooted issues? When you dismantle a company, people lose jobs, that does not look good on TV for politicians.

Wipe out existing shareholders and sell fresh shares on the open market. Nothing else needs to change.

Who will buy those fresh shares, knowing that they could be "wiped out" by the discretion of ? the government? at any time? for actions that people they don't know committed?

Re: Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming from 737 MAX crashes

#375

Post by account42 »

underseacables wrote: post #183
justinclift wrote: post #31

Seems an extremely soft ball approach: • Under the deal, Boeing agreed to pay a $243.6 million fine and for an third-party monitor to be installed to monitor the company’s compliance. ~$240M seems pretty low for an industry where billions are commonly thrown about. • The deal spares Boeing from a trial just as the planemaker is trying to turn a corner in its safety and manufacturing crises. Sparing them from a trial…

For the wealthy, it's always just pay a fine. The financial crisis is a great example. Wealthy CEOs rarely go to jail.

And often enough a fine smaller than the total profit from the illicit activity - so it's just a cost of doing business.

Re: Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming from 737 MAX crashes

#376

Post by lupusreal »

WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #358
tsunamifury wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really want the engineer who was last on the line of decisions to go to jail? Because that’s how this will go.

Such decisions are way above the pay grade of random engineers

Whether to do something you know is morally wrong or refuse and quit is always your pay grade.

And don't give me the Yuppie Nuremberg Defense. "I was just following orders... because I've got a mortgage!" That doesn't fly when lives are on the line.

Re: Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming from 737 MAX crashes

#377

Post by bluGill »

carapace wrote: post #310
bluGill wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll leave it to your imagination to figure out what the risk should be, but it should be something that a golden parachute shouldn't be able to resolve. I agree with that statement, but want so add: I believe that whatever you propose will have significant problems and is likely worse than the status quo in some major way. Sometimes I'll only be able to tell you what those problems are in hindsight. Sometimes thos…

Planes are falling out of the sky. I'm a fan of nuance but we're a little past that now.

Even with that, flying is still vastly safer than driving. We thus know there is a level of risk society is willing to accept.

Re: Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming from 737 MAX crashes

#378

Post by SJC_Hacker »

dralley wrote: post #245
immibis wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has propped up Boeing, because it's primarily a military contractor.

People keep saying this but it borders on conspiracy talk. The Air Force leadership has been pissed off at Boeing for well over a decade. Every project they've been given has turned into a clusterfuck even moreso than average. They fortunately had the foresight to not give them any cost-plus contracts, so at least it's Boeing eating most of the cost overruns rather than the Air Force, but the point remains that Boein…

> The Air Force leadership has been pissed off at Boeing for well over a decade.

Military brass don't control procurement. That would be Congress. In fact the military often frequently has systems it doesn't want/need precisely because Congress. See the Zumwalt destroyer and the Littoral Combat Ship.

Re: Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming from 737 MAX crashes

#379

Post by Joel_Mckay »

brianwawok wrote: post #318
semiquaver wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> technically as president/CEO of a firm you are already liable for any criminal conduct by your firm/employees-on-the-job. Citation needed. Limited liability is at the foundation of the very concept of incorporation.

Isn’t LL about protecting your assets not you from jail time? I can’t start a LLC, have the LLC pay someone to kill you, and be scott free. “Sorry you can’t go after me, go after this shell company and try to put it in jail ha ha”

Yep, people should talk with a real local corporate lawyer or AMCHAM if unsure.

The hubris on YC from those that assume the rules don't apply to them is hilarious. But, I guess someone has to pay for the lawyers kids to get though university.

Have a wonderful day =3

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