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Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

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Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#371

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> I think this is exactly what _most_ people want. Like seven people replied to say this, but they're all missing the trick. Most people want this because they're guided to want it. If you show people the convenience but not the risk, of course they want something with an advantage and no apparent disadvantage. But the disadvantage exists, it's just not immediately obvious. Then some corporate machine learning algori…

"The people want the thing that they want because they are wrong" I never understood how this argument even makes sense. It sounds a whole lot like you're upset that most normal people don't care about and don't want what you want.

It's more of: people want things obviously bad for them because of abusive salesmanship techniques, which exploit information asymmetry and opportunity cost (i.e. that people can't be bothered to do deep research on every one of the thousands things they buy). This includes effective marketing, that is typically deceptive and stops short of direct lies (sometimes not even that).

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#372
Companies like 1Password must be having a bad day. They have previously been held back by Apple, resulting in a poor user experience on iOS. And now Cupertino is entering into direct competition. Let’s see if Apple reaches feature parity and in particular, actually offers decent cross-platform support.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The people want the thing that they want because they are wrong" I never understood how this argument even makes sense. It sounds a whole lot like you're upset that most normal people don't care about and don't want what you want.

I feel like I explained it above. People often want things because they don't have all the information and people who are uninformed, especially when they're intentionally uninformed, make poor decisions. And maybe there are some people who, faced with the risk of losing all their stuff, conclude that maybe all their stuff isn't that important to them and they don't have time for this YOLO! But there are even more pe…

This is the bell curve meme. People just want the things that work for them, people that know what they are doing want things that work easily and know their way around a little better too.

You're overblowing the harmfulness, I'm not even sure what the argument is.

Prove to me you deserve to be called a "nerd."

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#374
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> People don't want everything tied to one identity, one service, one login. I think this is exactly what _most_ people want. With password management specifically, Apple has had a Chrome extension available for a while now which has allowed me to use it on other browsers/platforms. Not ideal, but good enough for most. On top of that, they don't lock you in with passwords. You can easily import and export your passw…

> On top of that, they don't lock you in with passwords. Now that many sites are moving to passkeys or TOTPs, it would be great if Apple could not lock users in there as well. > Apple has had a Chrome extension available for a while now which has allowed me to use it on other browsers/platforms That's only on Windows and requires you to install iCloud tools locally, right?

What is the adoption for passkeys? I do not get the impression that they will replace passwords or “social” logins anytime soon.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> People don't want everything tied to one identity, one service, one login. I think this is exactly what _most_ people want. With password management specifically, Apple has had a Chrome extension available for a while now which has allowed me to use it on other browsers/platforms. Not ideal, but good enough for most. On top of that, they don't lock you in with passwords. You can easily import and export your passw…

> I think this is exactly what _most_ people want. Like seven people replied to say this, but they're all missing the trick. Most people want this because they're guided to want it. If you show people the convenience but not the risk, of course they want something with an advantage and no apparent disadvantage. But the disadvantage exists, it's just not immediately obvious. Then some corporate machine learning algori…

Guided to want it. Sure. Everyone else, all those other folks with other lives, opinions and preferences, they are brain washed by my enemies. Come on, man :)

I just wanted Passwords to be its own app because the Settings applet(?) is obnoxious to interact with in some scenarios. My passwords are already all in there.

Now, I use a Windows laptop too and would love for Apple to make the Passwords thing work there too. It probably won't :)

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someday I hope a company might emerge that develops things for the sake of developing things to enhance their popularity.

That's contradictory; what you're looking for is a charity. A company does things for the sake of profit.

It can be profitable to be innovative in my opinion.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> People don't want everything tied to one identity, one service, one login. I think this is exactly what _most_ people want. With password management specifically, Apple has had a Chrome extension available for a while now which has allowed me to use it on other browsers/platforms. Not ideal, but good enough for most. On top of that, they don't lock you in with passwords. You can easily import and export your passw…

> I think this is exactly what _most_ people want. I couldn't agree more. I use Google's password manager because (1) it syncs everything (2) I already use Chrome everywhere (3) I can't be arsed to set up another password manager that is generally inferior in terms of integration. I don't care for the FOSS argument. I just want stuff to work and work easily. Plus, I sincerely believe Google is 'too big to fail'. If s…

> Plus, I sincerely believe Google is 'too big to fail'

Google might be too big to fail (I don't think so, but could be wrong).

The flip side of that is that google is too big to care. We all know from countless reports that they will evaporate your google account and everything ever associated with it, for no reason at all and zero chance of you ever being able to reach anyone to fix it.

I can't see why anyone would risk anything of value to such a platform that can destroy all your content at any second for no reason with no warning.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are driven away from open standards to vendors like Apple because so much open stuff just sucks so goddamn bad . So will Apple one day fuck me over? Perhaps, but in the meantime their shit just works and I am going to use it because I don’t have time to spend hours troubleshooting why manufacturer A doesn’t work with free publisher B when free driver C is loaded.

But have you thought to ask why that is? The general mechanism for free software to be developed is for the individual users to make modifications. Not all of them, of course, but the ones who know how to. Someone sees something wrong, fixes it. Apple interferes with this. If you don't like an app on your iPhone, even if it's open source, you can't just make a minor change because for that you have to pay $100/year a…

Well that's all fun and games until you start putting off paying Internet bill for two weeks because it turns out that you misconfigured your password app and it actually didn't save your password to the utility service provider and you realize you have no internet one day and you have a school assignment ugh and maybe your credit score gets 0.5% lower and yeah it's all very much your fault. "But you can just be more careful! Handle stuff like this as it arises!" Yeah, sure, just like during Communist times you could easily get more than one pound of coffee per half a year if you're just careful and note when it's available in stores as a drop-in

I believe this whole Apple vs Linux debate is perfectly analogous to the West vs East Germany debate, to the point that almost all intuitions/arguments for the latter are perfectly reusable in the former

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, I paid full price for the app. I attached many important documents such as my ID, SSN Card, my original birth cert, even the deed to my house. If I pass my wife knows where to get this info. When my son was born I went to add his birth cert and SSN. I couldn’t. The “attach file” button is still there but it simply doesn’t work any more. After hours of troubleshooting I finally found a discussion on their own…

Sad indeed but the days of 0 interest rates are gone. Plus, software engineers in many countries are now massively more expensive.

Software that's done doesn't need as many software engineers to look after it.
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