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Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

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Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#371

Post by _yb2s »

91bananas wrote: post #352
colecut wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you inherited woodworking tools from your grandfather, I'm assuming that either your grandfather or father taught you some woodworking skills? I grew up on the computer since I was a preteen. My dad moved 2000 miles away when I was 11. Every job I've ever had since I was 14 was web/software related and I am nearly 39. I feel like I have no practical skills outside of computers and the idea of building things with…

As others have mentioned, try. Youtube has a literal endless wealth of knowledge of how to do any task. I learned how to machine metal after 5 months of background youtube videos on manual machining. Youtube Apprenticeship.

This seems like the real answer here... you have to actually try, and not make excuses why it's impossible to even try. Lots of somewhat abrasive replies say you need a ton of money, time, and space that most people don't have to do hobbies- but those are easy excuses, and are simply not true.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#372

Post by SaltPork »

vbezhenar wrote: post #283
toomuchtodo wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What time is left after work, kids, sleep, and personal obligations for the median adult? Awesome hobbies are awesome! But they require time, and in some cases, financial resources.

And many hobbies require space. I'd love to do some woodworking but I don't have any space for that. I live in small flat. Of course nothing money couldn't solve, but buying huge house with workshop is another level of expenses and requires lifestyle changes as well.

Think smaller, try whittling a spoon. All you need is a sharp knife, you could buy a kit that come with a knife and a spoon gouge(it makes life easier). Pick up a stick and carve something. Or buy blanks, the BORG(big orange retail giant) will have carving material.

The obscene idea is that whatever hobby you pick up you must master, be great at it. Fail a lot at your hobby and learn from the mistakes. Perfection in your hobbies comes from the time you spent failing. This is the time you should long after a hectic day, week or month, a time to fail.

Once in a while you will create something you love, it probably won't even be good. It doesn't matter. Your not making a dollar on your hobby(do not try to), your carving your mind and body into a better person.

After work, after kids, after exercise, I've spent many nights just carving wood into what ever I feel like. Spoons, forks, etc. Many of them suck, many have been used to keep me warm on a cool night, none have expected anything from me, its always there when I have time and the will.

I've also suggest some cut gloves as well, you need your digits for the next time you decide to pick up your hobby.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#373

Post by cableshaft »

ravenstine wrote: post #52
sukruh wrote: post #35

Most of the people I know who pursue creative/crafting hobbies alongside a software development job have chosen to work for well-known big companies, for prestige and safety, and ended up unfulfilled in their jobs. Most big companies are not good if you want to solve problems and build stuff. Especially "the enterprise", where software is seen as a cost center so the less of it the better. The effort of managing up e…

At a level or two down from the abstraction of company size, crafting hobbies are also a reprieve from the tyranny of linters. So many programmers today believe that code is always better when it all looks identical. Consistency is a good thing, but not when it's expected to be absolute. Programming should actually allow for creativity, and where you decide to add spaces and newlines can actually add subtle but impor…

I'll take the tyranny of the linter tool over not having it at all (and I've had both). At least with my current project, it's single-handedly helped catch tricky React re-render bugs, because it warns me when I'm missing a dependency, or also warns me ahead of time if I'm likely to encounter a re-render every frame (and what's causing it), etc.

Also it's helped keep unused garbage out of the codebase also, which people tend to leave in there otherwise.

Also prettier has helped in me no longer reviewing MRs where every single line shows up in a file because their local machine has a different tab indent set or a different way to handle newlines (like with or without carriage returns, IIRC).

Sure it styles some things that aren't my preference, but I don't have to do it myself, it just automatically changes it all, so I can deal with it.

And if something is especially annoying or causes issues, I can usually get an exception added to the configuration, at least on my current team.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#374

Post by psunavy03 »

eddd-ddde wrote: post #286
ravenstine wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a level or two down from the abstraction of company size, crafting hobbies are also a reprieve from the tyranny of linters. So many programmers today believe that code is always better when it all looks identical. Consistency is a good thing, but not when it's expected to be absolute. Programming should actually allow for creativity, and where you decide to add spaces and newlines can actually add subtle but impor…

> the tyranny of linters This is a take I don't think I've seen before. Is someone actually mad prettier is changing their single quotes to double quotes? Are they mad some line is breaking at some word? Certainly I've never been. I use linters / formatters even when I'm working solo because the mere concept of having to think where to break lines is meaningless disruption from the actual goals I have. If you _really…

Seriously. Python Black is a godsend. I don't have to waste brain cells on formatting minutiae, just right-click and go "format my code, please." It's consistent, it works, and IDGAF about the details.

The only formatting that drives me up the wall is people using K&R braces in C# or Java. It's not 1970 anymore, and we're not all typing on green-screen terminals. It's like people fetishizing vim or emacs over modern IDEs.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#375

Post by pixl97 »

Aeolun wrote: post #71
usrnm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with doing a boring job for a lot of money and then getting all the fun elsewhere? This actually seems to be the best way to do it to me

Doing the boring job at all is a waste of 50+% of your waking hours? By all means, do it if it makes the remaining 50% more enjoyable, but I think it’s possible to have both. I want to have my cake and eat it too.

It is risk assessment/management.

The non-boring companies I've worked for have had problems of wanting to work you at 150% of your schedule, quite often illegally. It is insanely rare that you'll get a job that keeps you busy (only) 8 hours a day constantly. Either the place is always on fire and has 12 hours of work a day, or you'll have it better managed and work will be bursty with the majority of the time under utilized. Spend that extra time being taught stuff on the company dime.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#376

Post by tmarsden »

I think this all boils down to what Ted Kaczynski talked about in "Industrial Society and Its Future." Specifically "The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race" because "in modern industrial society only minimal effort is necessary to satisfy one’s physical needs." I would say 99.999% of all modern work is "surrogate activity" (an activity that is directed toward an artificial goal that people set up for themselves merely in order to have some goal to work toward.)

It's no surprise you can end up feeling empty and unfulfilled in a career like software development, or any other modern career, you are putting energy and emotional involvement that you would otherwise have put into the search for physical necessities. I think this is particularly acute for those in software development because it is so abstract and disconnected from the physical world. Biologically speaking fulfillment should come from satisfying your physical needs (i.e. surviving) not from the pursuit of some made up goal.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#377

Post by pixl97 »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #357
sukruh wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were comparing what the other company was charging your company for their developers: Labor and software services have different markets. Because, among other things, tax/insurance regulations and the expectations of contract longevity are not the same. A software shop needs to charge 2-3x salaries to be profitable. I was referring to a theoretical free market for labor. If you were comparing salaries, either…

I am comparing manager/architect positions in Europe with long-term (5+ years) contractor positions in India. Yes, I know contracting is more expensive than employees, but not to this level. We use contractors because internal developers would be paid so bad, nobody would apply (and they don't).

I'd say they pay bad so they don't have to have the local employees that would be protected by strong local laws. Contracting is effectively cheaper, mostly because the company doesn't care about the health of the local company/economy.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#378

Post by chihuahua »

thfuran wrote: post #170
ravenstine wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm not articulating my point very well. I absolutely agree that consistency, in principle, is usually a very good thing. My objection is to the idea that it's always a good thing, which it's not. Treating code formatting as rules rather than suggestions, in my experience, is a waste of time and unnecessarily tyrannical. In terms of mere code formatting, I don't buy that there's a meaningful difference between…

>Treating code formatting as rules rather than suggestions, in my experience, is a waste of time How can it be a waste of time? The whole point is to avoid wasting time talking about formatting on PRs or seeing line noise on PRs because people have slightly different preferences or settings for code formatting.

Right, exactly. Code formatting should be fully automatic (format on save, verify on commit) so that no one has to waste any time thinking or arguing about it, ever.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#379

Post by ghaff »

hyggetrold wrote: post #354
irrational wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the big companies because I can be paid a hefty six figure salary while working 4 hour days and spending the rest of the hours doing woodworking, gardening, home remodeling, baking, exercising, reading, etc.

It's an odd thing - at all the big companies I've worked for, you can usually get all your work for the day done in 4 hours. Between meetings and status waste, that's all anybody expects from you.

What you personally do is only part of your job. Communicating with others is probably at least the other 50%. Even if your an individual consultant your clients will expect you to communicate with them.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#380

Post by dekhn »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #340
dekhn wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Genmitsu 4040 Pro https://www.sainsmart.com/products/genmitsu-4040-pro-semi-as... with the upgraded XZ (if you experience chatter, you can send support an email with a photo and they will send a replacement part; I just installed it yesterday and it's greatly improved my results). I haven't really accessorized it, other than to replace the included spindle with a Dewalt 611 router. Before that I had an XCarv…

That price is not bad at all for that kind of machine, especially if it's stable. My dad had an XCarve for a long while but he eventually just gave up on it. He was going to give it to me but I was reading about it and it just seemed like more bother than it was worth, especially given the physical space required.

yes, the xcarve was nice but took up a big corner of my garage and honestly I wasn't cutting stuff near 1m x 1m and the ~400 x 400mm of the 4040 pro is more reasonable. It's stable (rigid) but not extremely so. You will not be able to make cuts as deep as you want, and aluminum will be challenging. But it's great for carving up a hunk of figured maple into art, as well as many other workflows.

There are things like the MPCNC ,and building your own design with OpenBuilds, but I don't recommend them unless designing, building, and maintaining is what you want to spend your time doing.

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