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The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

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Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#371

Post by p1dda »

complex1314 wrote: post #317
p1dda wrote: post #283

I am a working physician (50+) that is currently in training to become an IT professional, preferably working with development of new patient records systems. Being a physician is just not very intellectually challenging, more emotionally challenging, programming is in my mind a real challenge. Any others with experience of changing fields?

I trained as a doctor, then family practice for a few years, but since the middle of my studies, I realised my main passion was the more technical aspects. I did a bachelor's in electronics engineering while working 50% as a doctor the first two years, and with the last year dedicated only to studying. I realised a bachelor's would not be enough to get the engineering jobs I desired, so I went back to medicine and st…

Wow, that truly sounds like a dream job! I discovered neural networks in 2017 and managed to write a simple app to scan dermatological images to classify them, amazing technology! I have worked for one year at a dementia diagnostic centre as a part of my training to become a specialist in family medicine and there is definitely a lot of interesting work to be done. I have also have an interest in radiology, how are you finding the profession so far?

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#372

Post by nojvek »

novok wrote: post #280
skybrian wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health care professionals do form unions and go on strike sometimes, which can be seen as a way of looking out for each other.

Having friends on the other side of those medical union strikes, I think the hospital systems play hard ball and the unions don't get good outcomes often. My friend quit the hospital because how they were wringing her dry and pushing economical things that she found unethical. She quit and started her own private practice, makes more money, works less hours and is much happier now.

Hospitals also have non-competes, so doing a private practice isn’t that straightforward.

But I wish we had more private practices where doctors had more control and optimized for patient well being.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#374

Post by SamBam »

galahad_ wrote: post #261
bsdz wrote: post #30

Something I've never quite understood is why, in the UK, we cap the number of medical students per year. I've known very bright people who aspired to be doctors but had their applications turned down only to go on to do phds and become scientists instead. I'd rather have twice as many doctors who work sensible hours rather than the status quo burn out. Looks like there are calls to change this. https://commonslibrary…

Because you can't just set a higher number of students per year, for more students you have to create more facilities first. It's not like IT, where you can learn everything pretty well basically just with a study program, books and online lectures. As a medical student you have to do a lot of practical stuff with things that you don't get at home.

That would be the university's decision, then, not a state-mandated cap.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#375

Post by neffy »

bsdz wrote: post #30

Something I've never quite understood is why, in the UK, we cap the number of medical students per year. I've known very bright people who aspired to be doctors but had their applications turned down only to go on to do phds and become scientists instead. I'd rather have twice as many doctors who work sensible hours rather than the status quo burn out. Looks like there are calls to change this. https://commonslibrary…

I can't find anything to support this online, but I do distinctly remember reading once that the cap on medical student places goes back to the founding of the NHS and negotiations between the government and the BMA. (One of the issues at the time was persuading doctors to join the plan, and they were afraid of a drop in income).

It's fairly trivial to analyse population vs. medical student places and see where the problem lies - there was an expansion in training places a few years ago, but it's a pipeline problem, and doesn't get fixed overnight. If somebody really wanted to fix things, there would probably need to be some kind of accelerated training of doctors and nurses for a few years.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#377

Post by avidphantasm »

rqtwteye wrote: post #292
chmod600 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the article is about burnout. Surely that can't be great for existing doctors, either?

They choose more money over avoiding burnout.

I don’t think many doctors have much choice in the matter. The MBAization of hospital companies and practices bought up by private equity is strip mining the productive capacity of providers to juice profits. This is the MO of financial capitalism: find an established business that someone else built and extract maximum profits until the business collapses, then leave the rubble for others to clean up.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#378

Post by lumb63 »

jjackson5324 wrote: post #353
viraptor wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that's a good enough explanation. There's minimal if any impact from a given doctor on country wide policies, especially the ones funded by state. Junior doctors in the UK couldn't push basic improvements to both their working conditions and pay. That doesn't seem to match the idea that they can meaningfully influence the doctors intake numbers.

I don’t know about other countries but that’s absolutely the case for the US. The culprit is the AMA. > In the 20th century, the AMA has frequently lobbied to restrict the supply of physicians, contributing to a doctor shortage in the United States.[10][11][12] The organization has also lobbied against allowing physician assistants and other health care providers to perform basic forms of health care. The organizatio…

Milton Friedman discusses this in depth in his book Free to Choose (from the 1980s), for anyone who’s interested. Here we are 40 years later, problem still unsolved.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#379

Post by malfist »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #336
rqtwteye wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They choose more money over avoiding burnout.

You took the words right out of my mouth! Money is the elephant in the room here. Why doesn't the author quit surgery and start a small GP clinic? Oh, only half the pay? I see similar behaviour in law firms and investment banking.

So the answer to being overworked in a hospital is to quit, be overwhelming running your own business for half the pay?

That doesn't make any sense. And not everyone has the capital or capacity to make their own business

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#380

Post by zahma »

toldyouso2022 wrote: post #251
bsdz wrote: post #30

Something I've never quite understood is why, in the UK, we cap the number of medical students per year. I've known very bright people who aspired to be doctors but had their applications turned down only to go on to do phds and become scientists instead. I'd rather have twice as many doctors who work sensible hours rather than the status quo burn out. Looks like there are calls to change this. https://commonslibrary…

It's the same in the US, Italy, etc Doctors are a cartel receiving a monopoly from the State. That's all there is to it, really

I think you’re giving way too much credit to medical associations to rig the game in their favor. They exert enough influence over all fifty states and the various private institutions to systemically deny training to qualified candidates?

The fact is it’s extremely expensive and time consuming to train physicians. There isn’t enough space. Third and fourth year med students are going to far-flung hospitals to have hands-on experience because staying in the larger cities means they’re competing for access to training with residents.

All of this factors in to the cost and limited space of med school classes. It’s sad, but we would have to reinvent how we train physicians to address the limitations.

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