Live data from Hacker News

Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

hive.co.uk

371–380 of 660 posts

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh good! We should all aspire to have our work conditions resemble WWII B-17 crews.

I figgered someone would fixate on that. Well done!

You did just imply that peeing in bottles is fairly reasonable for certain hectic environments. Perhaps so, but you'd need another explanation for why it's reasonable for a workplace like Amazon's warehouses to embody that. I think there should at least be heavy scrutiny towards that premise.

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#372
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they don't realize it's a zero sum game until they're already playing it, and then their exit options are limited.

People quit Amazon all the time. Nobody is chained to their desk. Zero-sum games are called "theft", "fraud" and/or "wealth redistribution" schemes.

Being able to quit a terrible workplace doesn't imply that one has achieved a reasonable standard of living and is just making more money. Indeed, if people continue working at a workplace where they're subjected to conditions they think are terrible, they probably don't do it just to make more money.

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#373
To do anything practical I think you'd need to distinguish between wealth as in owning a company and as in money you spend on things for yourself like houses and cars. You could make a case for limiting the second one.

The trouble with restricting owning a company type wealth is what do you do with cases like Google or Facebook where some people build a better bit of software and because people like using it the company becomes valuable? Do you just ban successful ventures? Or confiscate them? When that's been tried under communism it hasn't worked very well.

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can invest it in the riskless asset and have a dollar and some interest tomorrow.

Forgive my naïveté, but if it’s riskless, how are you getting interest from investing in it?

Isn’t that confusing cause and effect? You’re getting interest because they’re paying it to you. They wanted to borrow, and even if there’s no risk, you won’t lend it out for free.

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#375
post #75

Productive wealth is a good thing. It's what made our current society possible. Unproductive wealth is the real devil, the hoarding of inelastic goods like land, gold, and oil. I strongly prefer a society which permits the existence of Jeff Bezos over one which does not. Of course, more strongly than that, I prefer a society which taxes inelastic goods and negative externalities and returns that wealth to the public…

>> Unproductive wealth is the real devil, the hoarding of inelastic goods like land, gold, and oil How would hoarding of gold, in and of itself, be bad? Say someone goes out and works and makes money, and they take the money and buy gold coins and keep them in a safe, or fill up a swimming pool so they can dive into their hoard of gold like Scrooge McDuck. They are contributing to society, and to the extent they hoar…

Hoarding gold isn't inherently bad, but many super rich people who arguably don't deserve nearly as much wealth as they have (worker exploitation, buying politicians, inheritance money, etc.), especially when juxtaposed with the terrible wealth inequality gap that they have the greatest ability to amend (through not exploiting, donating wealth or being taxed, not buying politicians to favor them, etc.). If everyone had a good baseline of living and politicians won't be bought to revert things, then no, I don't see a major issue with gold hoarders. But that's not the world we live in today.

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#376
post #331
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why? If someone is creating millions of dollars worth of goods or services what moral justification is there for it to be confiscated, particularly at your arbitrary level?

The goal wouldn't be confiscation. It would be to incentivize behavior to avoid confiscation. Charge less rent to mine minerals. Spread equity in business more broadly.

Setting aside whether wealth should be capped, wouldn’t doing it in this manner cause massive price mis-signalling?

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#377
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bezos' AWS made cloud computing viable, leading to the last two decades of economic growth without per capita energy consumption (due to datacenter energy efficiency). Bezos' Amazon lowers the cost and availability of goods of all kinds drastically, enriching everyone (and especially the poorer among us). The State makes bombs and drops bombs, not Bezos. Bezos deploys capital in ways which have proved to fill market…

AWS would not be possible without the contribution of hundreds of thousands of people and projects from the inception of the internet. It really is just a software on some redundant servers running open source software... it's not that incredible.

Aside from that, it's not obvious to me why we need a Bezos to achieve this. If people were capped to $5 billion (which seems absurdly high to me), would AWS never come into existence?

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#378
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they didn't think so, they'd still be choosing to shop at Sears and Kmart Let's be clear: Amazon has been responsible for the shutting down of so many in-person businesses that entire product categories are can only be purchased on Amazon. The choice is a false one.

Come on. You make it sound as if Amazon started a campaign to directly shut these in-person businesses down. The reality however is more mundane and exactly what parent comment mentioned: people voted with their feet and dollars, the in-person businesses that did shut down could not adapt and we are all the better for it.

Some people aren't better off for it, like the people who are being overworked at Amazon.

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#379
My policy proposal for reducing concentration of power is:

1) maximum revenue per employee at privately held companies, eg. $1m

2) maximum ownership of a company by a single person or entity of, say, 5%

What this means is that when you hit a good stride with a business and solve the entrepreneurial problem, you have to go public and sell your stake in it.

Everyone gets a rewarding pay day, but there is greater accountability and earlier on and more even distribution of the gains.

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point was labor communally owning industry in the Soviet Union or DPRK? Did Stalin or Kim ever ask a laborer for their opinion on how a factory should be run? Or give them a penny of the work they were doing? The Soviet block and DPRK was exactly as close to socialism as it was to democracy: 100% in their propaganda, 0% in reality. Or would you say democracy doesn't work because the Democratic People's Republ…

Exactly this This concept that there is a well defined polar opposite to western “freedom” capitalism is so far from reality in literally any economic history understanding Not only that but the USSR was in no sense Marxist Communist. It was well known that the Lenin-Trotskyist Bolshevism was the core, specifically the command economy part. That regime coopted the philosophy of Marxism well after his death. That’s wh…

While I am sympathetic to the idea that we need to burn e everything down, baby steps, first. If we're talking halfway realistic changes, let's get stuff like this wealth limit in place first, and once those been established for a while, we may have a better picture of the ideal state.
Post reply on HN