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Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

philip.greenspun.com

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Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#371

Post by nottorp »

Laforet wrote: post #342
nottorp wrote: post #340

I think the main reason is cost. A proper usb-c port should be able to be used for storage, display and powering devices with high power requirements. Even 15W is kinda high power unless you're buying a top end space heater from Intel. Now multiply this circuitry by 6-10 ports...

There is no need to make every port fully featured. Even MacBooks doesn't have that for the kind of price they demand

I think at least the Mx do have only fully featured ports?

If they support just one display but you can plug it in any port is one thing.

On a motherboard you're more likely to see 'these 5 ports are data only, 2 of them can charge beyond 5W, and that 6th port can be used for a display'.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#372

Post by nickpeterson »

arghwhat wrote: post #354
onetimeuse92304 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The insertion cycles are only for proper insertion. Like when you are looking at it and doing it at a correct angle. Also, rated lifetime does not take into account things like tugging the cable to the side of your PC because your foot got tangled in it. USB C is extremely fragile due to its size and not much can be done to help it. USB C might be created to withstand more insertion cycles. After all it is meant to b…

Funny you say that, I can tell from family experience that USB type A ports are quite fragile to a vertical tug as it breaks the internal plastic bar at its base so you're left with a hole full of floating copper pins. It of course requires more than a light tug, but less than you'd think. The USB-C housing is much more rigid than that of type A, so it should handle this much better. The thinner bar might also handle…

I really wish we’d end up with something like the old MagSafe.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#373

Post by Tijdreiziger »

linuxdude314 wrote: post #320
picture wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing technology to human lifetimes doesn't seem very relevant. Even not accounting for broad categories like "fire" or "language", we're still using individual technology from "long ago" like knives, forks, pen and paper, etc. It's fine to make improvements that keep backwards compatibility (more ergonomic scissor should be able to cut the same paper), but changing connector just because it's old is unwise. The…

Absurd comparison. It’s completely irrational to compare computer hardware is if it’s just some tool. If you don’t need the bandwidth, good for you. The rest of us choose modernity and nice things like, USB-C hard drives, network adapters, etc… USB-A is not a connector, it’s a whole spec. You can’t get the same performance out of that connector as you can a USB-C connector.

You can push 10 Gbps over USB-A connectors with USB3.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#374

Post by throwaway2037 »

onetimeuse92304 wrote: post #250
arcticbull wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, they're specced the opposite way. > Standard USB has a minimum rated lifetime of 1,500 cycles of insertion and removal, the Mini-USB receptacle increased this to 5,000 cycles, and the newer Micro-USB and USB-C receptacles are both designed for a minimum rated lifetime of 10,000 cycles of insertion and removal. [1] > To accomplish this, a locking device was added and the leaf-spring was moved fro…

The insertion cycles are only for proper insertion. Like when you are looking at it and doing it at a correct angle. Also, rated lifetime does not take into account things like tugging the cable to the side of your PC because your foot got tangled in it. USB C is extremely fragile due to its size and not much can be done to help it. USB C might be created to withstand more insertion cycles. After all it is meant to b…

    The insertion cycles are only for proper insertion.
Every time I see comments like this I think of the COVID-19 trolls who insisted that masks were only helpful if "worn correctly".

Proper? Please. Why not just say that the connector suffers from poor design and is difficult to plug correctly. Everything else is humiliating the average user, like my parents, with advanced degrees whom are not STEM.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#375

Post by throwaway2037 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #362
arghwhat wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you say that, I can tell from family experience that USB type A ports are quite fragile to a vertical tug as it breaks the internal plastic bar at its base so you're left with a hole full of floating copper pins. It of course requires more than a light tug, but less than you'd think. The USB-C housing is much more rigid than that of type A, so it should handle this much better. The thinner bar might also handle…

Can't comment on USB-C yet and obviously case point 1, but on my desktop tower (Fractal Design 6, so should be quality) I have for cca 5 years, the frontal USB-A connectors which are used most often, 2 out of 4 are already dead (I'd say maybe 500 insertions altogether, definitely not more). 1 is sort of in between, sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. I generally know very well how to take care of electronics and thos…

I like this post. No trolling: Did you report the issue to Fractal? I am sure they wish to hear your valuable feedback. They might also offer to replace your case with the latest version!

P.S. I am not a shill for Fractal, but a faithful owner.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#376

Post by sylware »

My 2c: because peripheral devices have a HUGE life cycle, and tons are still using legacy/big USB legacy connectors. And MB manufacturers do not want to provide a few legacy/big USB legacy connector <- USB-C connector converters with their MBs, probably because of costs.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#377

Post by cesarb »

accrual wrote: post #119
cesarb wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having them be USB C would mean they could only be used on USB C ports (adapters from USB C socket to USB A plug are forbidden by the USB standard, because they would allow creating the forbidden USB A to USB A cable), while having them be USB A allows them to be used on both USB A ports and (with a simple passive adapter) USB C ports.

> forbidden USB A to USB A cable In the early days of USB before flash drives were common, I was convinced such a cable would let me connect two PCs together to transfer data. Spent some time looking around in stores before a kind sales rep advised they did not exist.

> before a kind sales rep advised they did not exist.

Plot twist: they do exist, but not like you would expect. Unlike the forbidden USB A to USB A cable (which connects together the power supplies on both ends), there's a special debug-only USB A to USB A cable, which connects only the USB 3 pairs (and leaves both power and the USB 2 pair disconnected). Of course, that cable is useless unless you know how to put one of the devices in the special debug mode (and know which of the USB ports is the correct one, since AFAIK this debug mode usually works on only of the USB ports).

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#378

Post by wongarsu »

rightbyte wrote: post #304
rezonant wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VGA connectors were incredibly irritating to deal with, especially since so many of them were equipped with smooth screwing bolts with very little area to spin them with your fingers. I for one don't miss this.

If you wanted to have quick insert connection you could just not tighten the screws. I almost never tightened the screws, but it was good on monitors which were pivoting. I am writing this on a screen where the HDMI connector pops out if a even touch it.

> I am writing this on a screen where the HDMI connector pops out if a even touch it.

Just one more reason to switch to DisplayPort. The only downside of DisplayPort over VGA is that it's up to the connector model if it locks, not user input; but other than that DisplayPort seems clearly superior over VGA. Apart from the obvious signal improvements, slightly more compact design and the recessed port, even an non-locking cable sits far more securely than an unsecured VGA cable.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#379

Post by cassianoleal »

crote wrote: post #66
cassianoleal wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely they mean micro-USB. USB-B is anything but micro.

If we're being pedantic, it's USB Micro-B - more specifically the High-Speed variant. There's also USB Micro-A and USB Micro-AB, and all three have SuperSpeed variants which are twice the size.

Thanks, this is new information.

I wasn't being pedantic though. USB-B is in my experience used to refer to the square plug (commonly found in printers). Micro-USB seemed like a closer approximation to what I though that poster was referring to.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#380

Post by ziml77 »

ginko wrote: post #282
arcticbull wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also very easy to bodge together a USB-C connector in a pinch that only supports USB 2.0 USB-C is an extraordinarily flexible connector and is super backwards-compatible. If you wanted to provide the exact same support as a USB A port, it's not any more complex. Just finer pitch to solder, but not any finer than anything else on the motherboard. An A to C cable is also entirely passive. I think it's ok to rely o…

>It's also very easy to bodge together a USB-C connector in a pinch that only supports USB 2.0 If I found out (some of) the USB-C ports on my mb were limited to USB 2.0 speed and power I’d be quite pissed.

I would hope nothing on your mobo is bodged from the factory.
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