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Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

oag.ca.gov

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Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#371

Post by sokoloff »

linguae wrote: post #289
TOMDM wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem near me is that basically every restaurant is doing it, avoiding it would essentially mean avoiding eating out.

This practice is becoming widespread in the Bay Area, and I saw this in Boston earlier this year on a business trip (and what made it worse was that the particular restaurant I ate at didn’t announce the fee in the menu; it wasn’t until I saw the check that I saw the 4% surcharge). I refuse to dine at restaurants that charge “kitchen fees” or “service fees.” There are still restaurants that don’t engage in this pract…

I have no issue with restaurants who want to use service fees or kitchen fees, provided they're entirely clearly displayed before ordering.

If you add a 4% kitchen fee to the bill, my typical 18-20% tip becomes 14-16%, exactly the same as if you added a "parties of 6 or more have an automatic 18% service fee" then my tip becomes 0% (on top of the 18% you're already charging me).

If you try to sneak in a 4% fee that wasn't disclosed, let's just say that my tip changes, but does not become larger, if I discover your deception.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#372

Post by heimidal »

shiroiuma wrote: post #342
heimidal wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If tipping is banned in a place (by the local government I mean), where exactly are the "best workers" going to go? Are they going to pack up and move somewhere else? Tipping was banned in seven US states about a hundred years ago. For the most part, People simply ignored the laws. They were all repealed or found unconstitutional after a couple decades. I am not aware of anywhere in the world where tipping a server…

>A good server adds to the experience beyond the food and ambiance and help turn new customers into regulars. What, by acting like their best friend? This is definitely something weird about America. Here outside America, it isn't like that at all. There's no tipping, and servers just give you what you ask, though of course they'll answer questions and such. But they don't socialize with you; I don't need to pay some…

What is certainly true is that Americans are culturally more friendly toward strangers. Americans smiling and talking a lot is a cliche at this point. However, I would bet the "best friend" experiences that you have had would be nothing but simple pleasantries to a typical American. Tipping culture has little to do with it; "friendliness" is regarded as an element of excellent service here. Even in situations where no tip is ever expected, such as in a clothing store, workers are trained to be as friendly and overly helpful as possible.

For what it's worth, I have memories of extremely friendly waitstaff in Europe -- dare I say "American-esque". Just this summer, a French bartender in the Marais asked where we were from. When we answered "the US", she launched into a story about a trip she'd taken to New York. She talked about how much she loved seeing a Broadway show, Central Park, and MoMA. I watched her carry on with a British couple and many French patrons in the same way, returning to grab us another glass of wine and chat some more. The French people present seemed just as happy to chat with her as we were.

I have similar stories from London, Florence, Barcelona, and Tokyo (just off the top of my head). It's certainly not common, but I've seen it several times.

Americans often say most Europeans are stiff and uptight. Europeans often think the opposite of Americans. You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about it, but it's just a cultural difference that you're choosing to find distasteful.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#373

Post by lttlrck »

kelipso wrote: post #346
tzs wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the tax on the individual items in question, also, because it's all variable based on what you're buying, what city you're in etc. You're overlooking the context. Someone said it was easy to let young children go shopping in places where taxes are included in the sticker price because you can give the kid $5 and the kid knows they can buy any item with a sticker price that does not exceed that or a combinati…

The whole point is that you want the shopping experience to be such that a child can predict how much they will pay at the counter, not so much that this particular scenario has to be considered and fulfilled.

on the other hand the shopping experience reflects reality.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#374

Post by heimidal »

sacnoradhq wrote: post #236
heimidal wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "12.5% service charge" you see all over London would beg to differ.

Haven't been there in a while, but I was able to collect VAT refunds a LHR. Is that on top of VAT?

Yes, it's on top of VAT. It's usually "discretionary", meaning you can ask to have it taken off the bill, but you must ask and it usually results in being glared at.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#375

Post by hot_gril »

WalterBright wrote: post #355
hot_gril wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I had issues with my bank, they had special help set aside for us premium customers. The regular teller wasn't even authorized to fix that, so I don't want to know how long I would've spent there without the special status.

I just asked the teller to see the manager. I'm sorry, I just don't see why this is a difficult thing to do.

When I was in line, every person in front of me asked to see the manager for something stupid. They didn't see the manager. It was three hours, in the middle of my work day, before I got qualified help.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#376

Post by switch007 »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #257
initplus wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the recent past, US banks were found to have specifically designed software to calculate how to best re-order customer transactions to maximise overdraft fees. Banks also generally make it hard/impossible to opt out of overdraft, something that would probably be preferable to many customers. Overdraft fees are a huge source of income these days.

Adding further: many banks make it difficult or impossible to opt out of overdraft programs. I had to have a huge argument with my local rep. She kept insisting "what if there isn't enough money to cover the transaction?" and did not seem to understand that it was perfectly acceptable to me for such a transaction to fail, rather than succeed and incur a substantial fee.

She very likely understood but was just under immense pressure from her boss.

The same play dumb routine was very common here in the UK too. They made a ton of money on overdraft fees until 2020 when the law banned the outrageous fees.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#378

Post by pengaru »

sokoloff wrote: post #371
linguae wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This practice is becoming widespread in the Bay Area, and I saw this in Boston earlier this year on a business trip (and what made it worse was that the particular restaurant I ate at didn’t announce the fee in the menu; it wasn’t until I saw the check that I saw the 4% surcharge). I refuse to dine at restaurants that charge “kitchen fees” or “service fees.” There are still restaurants that don’t engage in this pract…

I have no issue with restaurants who want to use service fees or kitchen fees, provided they're entirely clearly displayed before ordering. If you add a 4% kitchen fee to the bill, my typical 18-20% tip becomes 14-16%, exactly the same as if you added a "parties of 6 or more have an automatic 18% service fee" then my tip becomes 0% (on top of the 18% you're already charging me). If you try to sneak in a 4% fee that w…

> If you add a 4% kitchen fee to the bill, my typical 18-20% tip becomes 14-16%, exactly the same as if you added a "parties of 6 or more have an automatic 18% service fee" then my tip becomes 0% (on top of the 18% you're already charging me).

It's unclear to my why you're equating tips with the bill (which 4% kitchen fee is part of, it's not gratuity). One of these goes to the peons, the other goes to the restaurant.

Your approach is just doing the the restaurateur's dirty work of fleecing the employees' tips by shifting it directly into the restaurant's pot. Congratulations, working as intended from the restaurateur's perspective.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#379

Post by WalterBright »

t-writescode wrote: post #370
WalterBright wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just asked the teller to see the manager. I'm sorry, I just don't see why this is a difficult thing to do.

Reasons this may be difficult: 1. historically poor person, they don't want to deal with them and just want to charge them the $35 per individual overdraft, or whatever insanely high charge it is. 2. Poor person works hours that make it impossible to visit or even call a bank. No really, working 1 job with insane hours or several jobs with even more insane hours are not uncommon for poor people. 3. They shouldn't be…

Write a letter. Before you dismiss this, too, I inherited my dad's papers. There were an awful lot of letters to businesses for various reasons, some with disputes. It worked for him.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#380

Post by dartharva »

dudul wrote: post #287
shortcake27 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost every other country in the world has solved this problem. It’s always fascinating when Americans have problems other countries don’t have, and just throw their hands in air saying “welp nothing we can do about it”

How many other countries are formed by a union of states governed by something similar to the 10th amendment? Always fascinating when non Americans can't understand that different places have different rules.

India and many others. Do you think the US is the only country in the world to have federal and local taxes?
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