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Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

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Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#371

Post by jaclaz »

stephen_g wrote: post #357
jaclaz wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they are essentially the same: https://medlineplus.gov/interstitiallungdiseases.html

I already commented above but no, they aren't - silicosos is similar to one of the several possible diseases asbestos can give you, asbestosis , but mesothelioma is the real horror outcome from asbestos exposure which I don't believe silica has any kind of similar connected disease.

Yes, maybe I expressed myself improperly, mesothelioma (often originated from asbestos) is slow (like 20 to 40 years from exposure):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesothelioma

the workers in the article are young and are dying from the effects of "plainer" silicosis (which is similar to asbestosis).

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#372

Post by sneak »

pseudosavant wrote: post #331
goalieca wrote: post #322

> Pale dust rose around them as they worked. Many went without masks. Some had water spurting from their machines, but others had nothing to tamp down the powder rising in the air. Safety regulations need to be put in place with the cheapest being a good quality respirator.

A scenario I have encountered many times is having someone doing work for me, they don't bring some basic safety gear like earplugs or masks. I have plenty of earplugs and masks though. Buy I can never get them to actually use them. They'd rather hear that jackhammer at full volume apparently? As a musician, it especially kills me to watch people destroy their ears. These workers are often too young to appreciate goo…

Their body, their choice.

I support everyone's right to destroy themselves if they choose to do so.

If we don't have the right to destroy ourselves, how can we also have rights to build and better ourselves? How can we be said to own ourselves at all if we can't choose to destroy ourselves?

The idea that we can't be allowed to choose to harm or destroy ourselves is the most fundamental violation of the most basic of human rights.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#373

Post by xwdv »

Verdex wrote: post #309

Omon Ra [1] is probably the most important book I've ever read. The wikipedia page suggested to me that it would be a surreal alternate history comedy about the Russian space program. There was however no comedy ... or at least nothing that was comedic to me. The point, at least as I interpreted it, was that society is very good at building callous machines that throw away human lives for no reason and then the same…

I see the same thing happen even in software. A developer here died 2 years ago, now 2 years later his contributions to the code base have finally been completely erased and replaced.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#374

Post by cm2012 »

quacked wrote: post #310

One of the frustrating things about modernity as a westerner is that I don't feel the need for the standard of living that all of these incredible-but-dangerous advances in modern science and technology have granted us. I don't need faux-stone counters cut by Central Americans, I don't to eat as varied a diet as is available, I don't need to travel anywhere over 45 mph or internationally, I don't need A/C on 95% of s…

Degrowthers are poison, and a big reason why Germany's economy is contracting this year while the rest of the EU and the USA are growing.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#375

Post by k0k0 »

xwdv wrote: post #373
Verdex wrote: post #309

Omon Ra [1] is probably the most important book I've ever read. The wikipedia page suggested to me that it would be a surreal alternate history comedy about the Russian space program. There was however no comedy ... or at least nothing that was comedic to me. The point, at least as I interpreted it, was that society is very good at building callous machines that throw away human lives for no reason and then the same…

I see the same thing happen even in software. A developer here died 2 years ago, now 2 years later his contributions to the code base have finally been completely erased and replaced.

His code contributions led to his demise? If not, I think you missed the point.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#376

Post by AnthonyMouse »

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #288
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The market can de-competitiveize itself through non-compete agreements, intellectual property laws, and other barriers to entry. The competitiveness occurs around the "ruleset", which shifts around according to the regulatory environment. What you're getting at is that market competition can be destroyed through regulatory capture. But now you're making the case for regulatory form and anti-trust rather than some k…

Free market competition rarely develops without regulation and/or government/public oversight. With no external control businesses tend to form cartels and/or adopt practices and regulations that are more hostile towards both consumers and workers than what governments can come up to. On average anyway. Of course there markets and goods which are somewhat immune to this and exceptionally incompetent governments which…

> With no external control businesses tend to form cartels and/or adopt practices and regulations that are more hostile towards both consumers and workers than what governments can come up to.

Cartels are generally a result of government regulation, because they require something to be creating a barrier to entry that prevents new entrants from breaking the cartel.

You can also have cartels enforced by e.g. acts of violence or vandalizing competitors who won't join the cartel, but who claims that non-consensual violence or property damage shouldn't be illegal?

If you encounter an uncompetitive market in practice then you clearly have some kind of a regulatory failure, but the answer in these cases is not to pass more laws to mitigate the consequences of insufficient competition, it's to address whatever is causing the market to be uncompetitive.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#377

Post by leoqa »

xwdv wrote: post #373
Verdex wrote: post #309

Omon Ra [1] is probably the most important book I've ever read. The wikipedia page suggested to me that it would be a surreal alternate history comedy about the Russian space program. There was however no comedy ... or at least nothing that was comedic to me. The point, at least as I interpreted it, was that society is very good at building callous machines that throw away human lives for no reason and then the same…

I see the same thing happen even in software. A developer here died 2 years ago, now 2 years later his contributions to the code base have finally been completely erased and replaced.

Yes but he didn’t die by typing in his keyboard. Our impact is transient, no one is irreplaceable.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#378

Post by raverbashing »

nickff wrote: post #326
goalieca wrote: post #322

> Pale dust rose around them as they worked. Many went without masks. Some had water spurting from their machines, but others had nothing to tamp down the powder rising in the air. Safety regulations need to be put in place with the cheapest being a good quality respirator.

Many workers resist using safety equipment, even when it is provided to them, and they are shown how to use it. This is common for fall protection too. Safety regulations requiring provision of equipment may not get the job done. For all we know, safety equipment was available.

Correct. I don't even know why are we having this conversation

Use a mask and cut it using water for dust management

If people were getting shocked while working with electricity we'd be calling the ridiculousness of it. This is basically the same thing, over a longer timeframe

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#379

Post by jcampbell1 »

stephen_g wrote: post #321

We have this problem in Australia too. I am glad at least that people are starting to wake up to the silicosis risk though, because you can also release silica dust cutting or drilling through bricks, cutting or polishing concrete etc. and you often see tradies take almost no precautions...

The only precaution required is to use wet cutting and grinding. A wet process works better in every way except it uses more water.

There is tons of decisions about factory equipment where there is a trade off between safety and the environment. Factory managers often joke about how various scrubbing equipment has OSHA on one side, and the EPA on the other. It is critical that the culture prioritizes safety above all else.

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