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The boiling frog of digital freedom

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Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#371

Post by paulryanrogers »

EGreg wrote: post #307
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but if netflix, your bank, your power and water service, and a chat app, where 80% of your contacts are only support chrome, what will you do? Many banks already require hardware attestation from google for mobile apps and mandatory 2FA via that app is a pain on a rooted phone and workarounds are painful. I mean sure, you can just not-use those services and not chat with everyone else, but that's a bad solution…

You should use them with Chrome And the rest of the web can be accessed using the fork of Chrome What’s the big deal? People have been using Popcorn Time to view movies that they couldn’t access, and so on.

I used to think this way and even made a browser extension to facilitate it (Browser Routr). Yet increasingly one must use Chrome or deal with random breakage and failed purchases because web devs cannot be bothered to try anything not Chrome. Sometimes even Safari is broken.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#372

Post by TuringNYC »

Macha wrote: post #218
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #105

While I share the author's fear, the timeline they created doesn't really work. 1. Windows 10 S has mostly been a failure. 2. Web Environment Integrity, while horrifying, has not been rolled into Chrome! It's an early proposal. We should work to ensure it goes nowhere. 3. The above greatly pushes out the plausible timeline for events currently listed next to 2024, 2027, 2028, 2029, 2031, and 2032. An aside, I don't f…

One of the big Windows 10 S problems is back in Windows 11, though. 1. You buy a device with Windows 11 2. The out of box experience demands you add a Microsoft account to proceed past it. There are workarounds for this, but mostly they are getting shut down. 3. You can't even get into the UEFI to install another OS without signing up to a MS account, because the UEFI is accessed via an OS level advanced startup opti…

>> One of the big Windows 10 S problems is back in Windows 11, though. >> 1. You buy a device with Windows 11

I realize i'm techy an have techy friends, but I dont know anyone who has purchased a Windows machine in a decade. No one in my household, none of my friends, no office i've been at since 2017.

The only interaction I have with windows is an old laptop used for MS Visio, which immediately dual-boots to Ubuntu when visio use is over.

I rarely see anyone at conferences with anything but a macbook.

My assumption was that the 30% market share windows has (https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share) is from old-school corporations, government, city hall, etc. Am I missing something?

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#373

Post by vinceguidry »

LesZedCB wrote: post #338
salawat wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just rebuild what you're missing, and share. In the journey to do so you will discover some of the most interesting primitives out there, and everyone gains, instead of a few unrepentant Gatekeepers.

i would prefer not to

You can, of course, pick your level of engagement, and make adjustments over time. An Android phone can provide all the engagement you need, and there are lots of distributions that focus on providing different experience. I'm using a stock Android phone and Linux everywhere else. My current phone isn't rootable, (I bought it to replace a lost iPhone and didn't have time to do research) so I'm stuck with stock, but my next phone will be. I'm still way happier on Android than I ever was on iOS.

If you really want to have your foot in both worlds, you can always live the two-phone lifestyle. Might go that way myself eventually.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#374

Post by louthy »

wizofaus wrote: post #368
louthy wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses don't do free. It is not what they exist for: The 'Stallman movement' isn't compatible with the the tech-company, the employed software-engineer, etc. I think what the OP is getting at is that the for-profit tech industry needs something akin to the Hippocratic Oath [1]. As software engineers swearing to a set of 'do no harm' ethical codes could well be a first step to becoming a recognised professional. I…

> As software engineers swearing to a set of 'do no harm' ethical codes could well be a first step Just like "don't be evil"? Which was actually enshrined in Google's corporate code of conduct for some time, and could even believed if you squinted the right way...

You can choose to interpret my comment as being about corporations if you like; however, I was talking about individual engineers. It is perfectly feasible for a professional oath/code-of-ethics to work, as it does in other industries. It doesn't mean you will never get a bad actor, but it adds a layer of protection to any engineer.

For example, you could imagine that once the code-of-ethics is standardised:

* Organisations that employ software engineers will feel obliged to publicly follow it (like they all have to have public policies around things like modern slavery, etc.)

* They would also be pressured to display it on job ads. Because why would an engineer want to work somewhere that doesn't follow the industry code-of-ethics.

* Engineers have something to point at as a reference to what is, and what is not, ethical. Allowing them to not appear be the only voice in an organisation who can see harm being done.

* It could well enable a union of software engineers take industrial action if the code of ethics is being broken. Which would be a PR disaster for any corporation.

At the extreme end, you could possibly see a future where engineers are 'struck off' of the professional body representing us (for unethical practice).

The only downside I see is that ethics and morals are mutable, so it'd be pretty hard to nail down a concrete set of ethics that are effective without overstepping. There are however plenty of smart people in this industry, so it shouldn't be beyond us to work it out.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#375

Post by nologic01 »

vinay_ys wrote: post #321

There are huge economic interests driving the tremendous advancements in mobile computing hardware and software. The same economic interests are leading to creation of things like private-access-tokens and web env integrity as a way to differentiate themselves and to protect their business models from external existential attacks on them. The alternative economic business models have been applied to build open-source…

> Nobody cared about the privacy and security aspects

Do people care about the privacy and security of their homes?

They obviously do.

Now why would the same people not care about the digital privacy and security of their homes?

Maybe they are incoherent idiots. That is certainly part of the explanation.

But maybe, just maybe, nobody credible and on a high enough podium ever warned them their digital homes are being pilfered with gusto. That, indeed, all sorts of valuables are taken from them, except they are intangible.

Your arguments about economic model viability are right, except they are not. Economic models follow laws and regulations. If you mandate that digital privacy is a right and its violation is theft, then there will be a viable industry built around that.

The shape of the tech industry is increasingly determined by political views rather than economic or technical constraints.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#376

Post by LesZedCB »

vinceguidry wrote: post #373
LesZedCB wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i would prefer not to

You can, of course, pick your level of engagement, and make adjustments over time. An Android phone can provide all the engagement you need, and there are lots of distributions that focus on providing different experience. I'm using a stock Android phone and Linux everywhere else. My current phone isn't rootable, (I bought it to replace a lost iPhone and didn't have time to do research) so I'm stuck with stock, but m…

I've been happily living on android for maybe 5 years now after iOS for maybe 10 before that. I don't really miss it at all, but the tier system is hard to ignore. besides the infamous "green text" phenomenon, iOS tends to get the apps for applications that only support one, or in my car, android auto only takes up the top half of the screen whereas car play uses the full display. and of course, the software ecosystem for the Subaru infotainment is completely proprietary and non-user-serviceable so I can do nothing about it.

but that's just how it is, choosing free, ethical software is choosing a life of austerity and alienation.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#377

Post by [deleted] »

tim333 wrote: post #303

This misses a wider context of increasing freedom: Prehistory: We lived is small groups. No privacy. About 1/3 or males die by being killed by their own species. Say something against the alphas and risk death. 1600s. trials for heresy etc. Brits sail for the new world to get free speech and freedom of religion. Their colonies do ok. 1960s computers coming but things still pretty locked down in much of the world, sec…

[deleted]

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#378

Post by landemva »

midasuni wrote: post #180
nvm0n2 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be trading one kind of "shit" for a much more real and serious kind of shit - at the new bank, you'd either be more likely to get your account drained in ways that are hard to reverse, or you'd be forced back to using dedicated hardware smartcard readers of the type that were common before mobile apps became widely used (at least were common in Europe). If your bank account gets drained and you'd made a big…

You use the word “forced” like it’s a problem? I hated it when my bank got rid of a nice secure card reader (which required my physical card and pin). If my phone breaks or is stolen, I can’t actually buy a replacement phone now, as that requires spending money, which requires 2FA which requires my phone.

Keep a few dozen $100s on hand for when payment networks glitch out.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#379

Post by dang »

dennis_jeeves1 wrote: post #216
jacquesm wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Stallman movement failed The stuff you read on hn... Seriously, you think it failed? I think it succeeded wildly beyond anything anybody imagined at the time, to the point that very large entities threw everything and the kitchensink at it to try to make it fail. Which exposed them for the criminals they were. We don't need anything that is more compatible with 'business owners' than what we've got. What we nee…

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Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#380

Post by landemva »

tsss wrote: post #53
attah_ wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That same logic says you should not vote either. If even some 10-20% of IT professionals (with salaries to match) up and leave for a less shit bank, trust me, they will care.

No, that logic says you can vote or you can not, it makes effectively zero difference.

I always vote the local issues. For the national bozos I can leave it blank, which is "none of the above".
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