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Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

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Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember Win32s, I think Netscape Navigator needed it. I was thinking Lode Runner, but that was WinG . I always thought it was backported from Windows 95, thanks for the info.

Iirc Win32s existed before Win95.

Windows 95 - August 24th, 1995

Win32s - October 1992.

And I was off by one Windows NT version, it was already based on 3.51, not 4.0.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#372

See also https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost... one of the developers of the hit game SimCity, who told me that there was a critical bug in his application: it used memory right after freeing it, a major no-no that happened to work OK on DOS but would not work under Windows where memory that is freed is likely to be snatched up by another running application right away. The testers on the Win…

From where I'm sitting this looks like an excellent argument for breaking backwards compatibility. All those bullshit hacks are a maintenance and debugging burden for someone and a tax on the whole rest of the operating system -- and I'd argue that it really shows.

Raymond Chen said (to the effect of) this in his book the Old New Thing:

You have been playing your game fine. You installed a new Windows OS and now the game no longer runs. As an average customer, who do you blame? Hint: not the game studio.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a nice strawman you got there, give him a spin so we can admire it in all its glory.

My dude I literally quoted what you said, at least before you edited your comment to remove it.

>My dude I literally quoted what you said

You quoted what I said then turned it into this strawman for a snarky jab: "Surely you aren't making the argument that Microsoft is generous enough to let you remove their bloatware?"

>at least before you edited your comment to remove it.

I removed more points because the comment was getting huge.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Phone home telemetry and ads in OS ? MacOS also has telemetry. >For backend stuff it's almost implicit that you're running on Linux in prod and macos is well supported because it's fairly similar. Then Windows would be better than MacOS in this regard because WSL2 is exactly Linux, not just "fairly similar" to Linux. >stuff randomly breaking between updates What stuff broke for you between updates? Our entire DS tea…

> MacOS also has telemetry. And who do I trust more - company that bundles third party crap ware and openly talks about OS ads as monetization avenue. Or a company selling me xxxx$ machine and wanting to sell me a next one with the OS in the future. As much as I dislike Apple walled garden - their incentive structure is way more aligned with me than Microsoft desktop. > Then Windows would be better than MacOS in this…

>And who do I trust more

You throw a lot of stones considering how fragile your glass house is. Apples is the same company that wanted to scan your phone, that you bought and own, for child porn and report you to the authorities if something was found.

How you or anyone can blindly trust them after that is beyond me. Trust no major corporation regardless of how shiny their products are is my life motto.

>Haven't seen that be better than a VM.

It is, that's why people use it. Look up tutorials online.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They will probably retire Rosetta2 in a few years, like they did with Rosetta. Counterpoint: The PPC-to-Intel version of Rosetta was licensed technology (QuickTransit); Apple was undoubtedly paying for it, possibly even per user, so there were financial reasons for them to get users off of it ASAP. Rosetta 2 was developed in-house by Apple, so there isn't the same hard timeline to get users to stop using it. I woul…

It could last longer if gaming with their game porting toolkit gets big enough to drive more Mac sales. Money talks.

That's a long shot. I wouldn't hold my breath for seeing the day when gaming on Mac is a real choice for big games.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#376
post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually what most gpu driver updates are. Instead of devs fixing their games, nvidia calcilated its in their best interest to just fix the game bugs at the gpu driver level and push updates.

> fix the game bugs at the gpu driver level and push updates it's because the nvidia drivers are opaque blobs, rather than a source distribution. If nvidia distributed their drivers as open source, i would imagine developers would likely "fix" their games properly because they'd be able to see what is going on underneath the hood, and write more optimal code. of course, this removes some "competitive advantage" nvidi…

Those games stopped receiving updates years ago.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if the developer isn’t around anymore.

In a world with only one developer, yes. In the real world, where other developers can create new apps that do the same thing better, more secure, easier or in a more modern way, no.

Also in the real world, where (for any number of reasons) users sometimes prefer older apps regardless, yes.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: Firefox, Firefox only demands restarting if you changed the copy of Firefox out from under it. This only happens if you're managing Firefox with an external package manager, or you're building from the repo and installed a new copy. If you run Firefox from its default mechanism, it will update itself and ask to restart before applying the update, and will continue working forever, never updating until you restart…

Might be the case now (Note, I'm talking about Nightly), this was a few years back, I noticed that first it warned that a new version was working and then mysteriously bricked the browser after, complained and they told me that I "shouldn't be using nightly if I don't wanna have the latest updates"... which I do, but I don't wanna be forced into a restart unless it actually breaks?

I use Nightly exclusively. Unless you are somehow installing Nightly updates in a way that the binary is owned by a user who isn't you (ie, owned by root), Nightly will never force you to restart, it just forever has the green dot on the hamburger menu.

This is true for me on both Windows (and my user is part of the Administrator group, thus can write to a global c:\Program Files install) and Linux (and Firefox is installed to a directory in $HOME to simplify the process of non-packaged binary management).

Now, I also have Firefox (stable) installed as a .deb (to fulfill the browser dep). If the .deb gets upgraded by apt, that Firefox suddenly bricks itself until I restart. And this is intentional, btw, given how Firefox interacts with itself to do process isolation.

Everything I say here has been true for roughly the past decade.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a DE? Also did they tell you what the program did? Other systems that will run or automatically translate > 30 yr old binaries: - I believe IBM i on POWER {i5/AS400} will run stuff from System 38 (1980). - HPE Nonstop (aka Tandem Guardian ) on X86-64 will run or translate binaries from the original proprietary TNS systems (late 1970s) and MIPS systems (1991).

Distinguished Engineer?

Bingo.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a world with only one developer, yes. In the real world, where other developers can create new apps that do the same thing better, more secure, easier or in a more modern way, no.

Also in the real world, where (for any number of reasons) users sometimes prefer older apps regardless, yes.

And sometimes users do not get what they prefer and they have to make do with what they get. In the Microsoft world and in the Apple world. Tough luck.

It’s not worth living in the past because some hypothetical users want to cling to it. It’s worth promoting innovation because innovation is replacing old things with better new things.

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