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Blocked by Cloudflare

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Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#371

Post by 3LazTjBv-f »

unmole wrote: post #109
bradley13 wrote: post #78

Anecdote: For my programming classes, one example I use is a simple browser. It doesn't do CSS or Javacript, so display is primitive, but it works. On some sites. Many sites, especially the big ones, see that it's an unknown browser, and refuse to send content. Probably they think it's a bot. But even if it were, what's wrong with bots, as long as they're well-behaved? What kind of closed web have we let the megacorp…

Playing the devil's advocate: Why shouldn't a server get to decide which clients it wants to talk to?

In principle? Of course. I mean I remember blocking Yandex bots from hammering some e-commerce site on shoestring budget.

But each person developing a web scrapping bot realizes at most after a week that being honest with User-agent has negative impact on how well it works, and changing it to existing browser takes literally seconds.

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#372

Post by bombolo »

WheatMillington wrote: post #145
shiomiru wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cause of the problem is that your software is faulty by design. 1. IP addresses are to be used for packet routing. Certainly not for assigning "behavior scores" to users in the background. IP addresses say nothing about your visitors, my IP address could have been a complete stranger's IP address yesterday. 2. Deciding who can access half the web based on their TLS signature achieves nothing in the long run excep…

You're being a little dramatic. It's incredibly unlikely that millions of innocent users have been blocked, and unless you have data to the contrary you shouldn't make such a claim. You know what else is harmful to the concept of the open internet? The enormous malicious botnets and other endemic problems that require a solution like CloudFlare.

cloudflare blocks me every time I open an incognito window. No VPN, just having no cookie towards a domain automatically means I'm a bot…

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#373

Post by bombolo »

samcat116 wrote: post #249
shiomiru wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cause of the problem is that your software is faulty by design. 1. IP addresses are to be used for packet routing. Certainly not for assigning "behavior scores" to users in the background. IP addresses say nothing about your visitors, my IP address could have been a complete stranger's IP address yesterday. 2. Deciding who can access half the web based on their TLS signature achieves nothing in the long run excep…

> Let's be honest here. Your service has likely caused millions of people harm who one day to the other are suddenly blocked from half the WWW If this was true, Cloudflare wouldn't be a good product used by a lot of sites.

You're assuming website owners are aware of the issue… How would they know? Cloudflare is just telling them it blocked a bunch of bots.

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#374

Post by morjom »

afavour wrote: post #96
dcow wrote: post #84

So many privacy nuts use Chrome and don't realize this: > What about Google Chrome? > I tried all of the above in Firefox. So I naturally tried to access the same page in Google Chrome to see if I’d still be blocked. Thankfully, I wasn’t. > But of course I wasn’t because Chrome doesn’t have the same privacy- and security-enhancing designs that Firefox does. Chrome will happily collect as much private information abou…

I’m no Google fanboy but I wasn’t satisfied with this: > Chrome will happily collect as much private information about me and my browsing history and share them with select parties, as needed What information does Chrome provide in this scenario that Firefox doesn’t? It feels like backward logic: it worked in Chrome therefore it must be because Chrome gave extra info. In reality it could be a whole bunch of things, s…

https://privacytests.org/ shows some good data what each browser lets through/exposes for websites.

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#375

Post by doctor_radium »

unmole wrote: post #109
bradley13 wrote: post #78

Anecdote: For my programming classes, one example I use is a simple browser. It doesn't do CSS or Javacript, so display is primitive, but it works. On some sites. Many sites, especially the big ones, see that it's an unknown browser, and refuse to send content. Probably they think it's a bot. But even if it were, what's wrong with bots, as long as they're well-behaved? What kind of closed web have we let the megacorp…

Playing the devil's advocate: Why shouldn't a server get to decide which clients it wants to talk to?

Long term, I can imagine this becoming a corollary to Net Neutrality. Whenever that finally becomes a thing, the next step could be a law/rule that "public web sites need to be accessible by the public". Not that developers need to test their work in dozens of different browsers, but that they can't actively choose their customers.

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#376

Post by krono »

sammy2255 wrote: post #355
krono wrote: post #80

The amount of times Cloudflare is making me sit through their 15 to 30 second "checking your connection" page is insane. For people going through life with ADHD such as myself, the impact of all these delays and disruptions throughout the day can be severe. Despite being properly medicated this measure is absolutely debilitating and makes for a dreadful and very taxing online experience.

Cloudflare isnt making you do that. The customer using Cloudflare has configured it to do that…

  "There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief
  "There’s too much confusion, I can’t get no relief"

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#377

Post by tick_tock_tick »

sam0x17 wrote: post #344
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The heuristics used to attempt to differentiate between a so-called "bot" and a "human" are, IMHO, inadequate as long as there are "humans" that are allegedly mistaken for "bots" and blocked. "Use Chrome" is not a solution. A person using Firefox or some other non-Google software is still a "human". But not according to these brilliant "site protection" schemes. What level of false positives is acceptable. Using JS t…

Furthermore, all bots worth their salt as far as threats go enable js and do everything they can to appear like a normal browser.

That's fine as processing the javascript increases the coast at-least.

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#378

Post by tick_tock_tick »

bombolo wrote: post #373
samcat116 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's be honest here. Your service has likely caused millions of people harm who one day to the other are suddenly blocked from half the WWW If this was true, Cloudflare wouldn't be a good product used by a lot of sites.

You're assuming website owners are aware of the issue… How would they know? Cloudflare is just telling them it blocked a bunch of bots.

They have before and after analytics.....

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#379

Post by tick_tock_tick »

sockaddr wrote: post #242
lopkeny12ko wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a classic and incredibly annoying SaaS PM move. Pinky-promise that you mean well, pretend to be invested in the issue, ask customers to supply evidence and say you'll look into it, followed by radio silence and no follow up whatsoever. Incidentally, another Cloudflare PM for Pages asked me to do the same thing--I shared my account ID, the request, the problem, timestamps, etc...never heard back ever, request wen…

Yup. It's all show. A service has injected itself between you and your goal, it's going to periodically impede you from reaching that goal and then lie to you about why, all while making money off of the arrangement.

It's it more the like the owner of the website has intentionally gone out of their way to add a service between you and the website to solve issues the website owner feels are more important then you?

Re: Blocked by Cloudflare

#380

Post by bayindirh »

quest88 wrote: post #314
afavour wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m no Google fanboy but I wasn’t satisfied with this: > Chrome will happily collect as much private information about me and my browsing history and share them with select parties, as needed What information does Chrome provide in this scenario that Firefox doesn’t? It feels like backward logic: it worked in Chrome therefore it must be because Chrome gave extra info. In reality it could be a whole bunch of things, s…

Why would chrome give that information away? That's Google's most valuable resource.

Maybe they're directly delivering your information for a price. From you to them, directly, via Chrome.
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