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TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

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371–380 of 526 posts

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethnic Germans are just as much a threat to LGBT people than fanatic Muslims are, and it's not just the former GDR where reactionary and fascist attitudes bloom. I had to spend half a year in the ass cracks of Niederbayern... not something I'd like to repeat. People openly talking "something like that (i.e. LGBT) wouldn't have been a thing under Hitler" over their beers or someone shouting Sieg and the full pub respo…

sure, bavaria is as bad as egypt or saudi arabia for gay people, suuure god this place has gone down the shitter

The person I replied to was talking about Muslim immigrants to Germany, which our far-right blames for being anti-LGBT.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#372
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technology is roughly 10 years behind, but in the scenario that the replacement capability becomes important is something like Trump fumbles the great power competition and US and China have a nice nuclear moment. And frankly making do with Haswell era CPUs is lamentable but as far as nuclear exchanges go not that bad.

Older generation fabs are critical. They power most of the machines around us, and often pump out low priced but capable chips. I certainly am not contesting that. I responded to someone who seems to believe this is the great AI equalizer. This fab has no relevance to AI. And FWIW, Europe already has a number of much more advanced fabs! Intel is currently upgrading Ireland to "Intel 4" spec (which in TSMC land would…

I am no expert, but my understanding is that to get nice chips, you need both ASML and TSMC. They have very different areas of expertise and posses very different know hows.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GPT is not some one-of-a-kind leaps-and-bounds ahead of everyone else ground-breaking technology. GPT 3 and 4 were already exactly that, leaps and bounds ahead of everybody else. GPT 4 shocked the connected planet and massively disrupted plans across the tech industry globally. Version 4 has been every bit as disruptive as the iPhone (which completely altered the trajectory of the phone & mobile markets). It has be…

> It has been talked about from coast to coast across the globe non-stop since its release. Covered endlessly by every major media outlet in the West. GPT this, AI that, non-stop since V4 sparked enormous consumer attention and debate. You're in a bubble: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=ChatGPT&hl... Trends on ChatGPT interest are clearly going down. It's almost as if it isn't the Magic Beans the ch…

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Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#374
post #3

Wonder if the Taiwanese govt at some point will step in and block these onshoring measures as a matter of national security. If countries are less reliant on manufacturing within Taiwan, its one less reason to stand up to Beijing's one China principle.

The USA has guaranteed the demise of Taiwan by making it the next target of a global war. Everyone knows that China is not going back on a territory that is theirs by international treaties, and the US has practically declared they will fight to separate Taiwan from China. The only thing that remains for Taiwanese companies is to move from homeland into other countries as a way to survive. Actually, this is probably…

"that is theirs by international treaties"

The PRC has never, not even for a single day, controlled Taiwan, Kinmen, Matsu, etc.

The continued existence of the ROC (1912-present) truly causes tankies to lose their minds.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is true. China is working really hard to get it's domestic semiconducter industry up to speed. They are willing to burn a lot of money and time to reach their overall political goal of annexing Taiwan even if it takes a very very long time. Ultimately it's unrealistic to assume that a country of 1.4 Billion people can not catch up eventually espescially if they would otherwise have to rely on a global co…

> it's unrealistic to assume that a country of 1.4 Billion people can not catch up eventually Why? By 2100, each of Pakistan, the D.R.C. and Kenya are forecast to have larger populations than America [1]. Is it unrealistic to assume they won’t be at parity with the west in eighty years? (Note: not saying dismiss entirely. Just baselines.) China has a lot going for it in semiconductors. Demography isn’t one of them. T…

>Why?

Because PRC is not systemically comparable to those countries just like Japan isn't comparable to a larger Nigeria.

Only the most cognitively challenged demographic determinists argue larger population = more capability. Useful demographic analysis more than naive reading of demographic pyramid, it's recognizing unlike most developing countries, PRC has established record to upskill/cultivate and coordinate human capita at scale. And is projected to have multiple times more skilled talent than US by 2050s, moving from current 25% high skilled workforce to 60/70/80% to reflect workforce composition of advanced economies over time.

>Demography isn’t one of them

More than anyone, demography is PRC's greatest advantage for semi and other high tech industries in relevant timelines we're talking about. The workforce for high skilled talent is exploding for another 30+ years. Short/medium term PRC has by relevant measures, the greatest skilled demographic divident ever, and even in stagnation they'll be settling with largest (or second largest relative to India) pool of skilled workforce, with again proven ability to coordinate (i.e. not India performance).

Even 2100 PRC working age population is still ~2x of 2100 US if you tally up pyramid projections of 20-65 yr olds. Except PRC's 2100 workforce will likely have more than 2x current skilled talent instead of being dragged down by 100s of millions of farmers and surplus informal workers who will age out post 2050s to be replaced by better educated/more productive cohorts. Same way other Asian tigers grew despite "bad demographics" - by continuously upskilling % of workforce initially dominated by peasants over time.

This is why current analysis of US semi workforce project 80k short term shortage to balloon to 300-400k medium term. SKR, TW both have current/short term 50-100k shortage. The TLDR is SKR, TW (and JP) have nearly satuated their workforce in terms of skilled talent, and can't replace at parity. US expanding fabs as rate their talent pipeline can't catch up, and the ability to import/brain drain is limited because they'll be taking from other CHIP4 partners also undergoing shortage. Which leaves PRC, who after elevating semi to first-level dicipline in 2018 is pumping out about 30k IC graduates per year. They're still about 200k short, ~520k/720k (400k in 2018) out of what IC talent 2018 white paper estimated PRC needed for completely indigenous semi industry, which US isn't currently even trying to pursue, still ultimately relying on east asian semi supply chains. Long term US may to get there, but right now only PRC is sent to close semi labour force gap within the decade. Ultimately, talent is just as important in industrial policy as money. PRC has both. Their biggest shortcoming is being behind, which will likely be addressed by investing sufficient talent and money.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people most hyped on GPT are the people who see the potential for it if it continues to get exponentially better - which Altman himself pretty much said it won't.

> GPT is not some one-of-a-kind leaps-and-bounds ahead of everyone else ground-breaking technology. GPT 3 and 4 were already exactly that, leaps and bounds ahead of everybody else. GPT 4 shocked the connected planet and massively disrupted plans across the tech industry globally. Version 4 has been every bit as disruptive as the iPhone (which completely altered the trajectory of the phone & mobile markets). It has be…

The only people scared are people who don't understand it. You've obviously drank the koolaid. What OpenAI has done is impressive, but it's not a replacement for programmers or anyone who does knowledge work. The people who should be scared are people who don't produce original work. For example, journalists who just rewrite content from Reuters. Investigative journalists producing original work aren't at risk.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shooting down the Chinese ballon and arming Ukraine with long range weapons aren't potentially acts of provocation against nuclear powers? Reverse the roles. American ballon. Mexico getting armed against the US by a foreign superpower and sworn enemy. Would the US tolerate those acts?

People forget that JFK nearly nuked the USSR over the Cuban missile crisis (which was a response to NATO missiles in Turkey, ironically enough).

The missiles at question in the Cuban missile crisis were nuclear. That's not a reasonable comparison to the non-nuclear confrontation in Ukraine.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure, bavaria is as bad as egypt or saudi arabia for gay people, suuure god this place has gone down the shitter

The person I replied to was talking about Muslim immigrants to Germany, which our far-right blames for being anti-LGBT.

No, i was giving a hint that parent was fearmongering, which i consider to be some bad thing. So i paralleled it with the fearmongering of the AfD because i think everyone agrees that this is bad.

And you backed them up with even more fearmongering. Why is a self-proclaimed antifascist using fascist methods? "Its justified when *I* do it" my ass. The AfD is problem enough, don't add to it. Bring your points across without fearmongering against groups of people.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#379
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would the US tolerate those acts? Yes? What about their nuclear policy from the past half-century convinces you otherwise?

Doesn’t the US make regular use of depleted uranium munitions? Particularly in the middle east? Definitely seems nuclear.

Depleted uranium is not a nuclear weapon.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#380

Along with (hopefully) that french startup (Mistral) founded by the LLaMA guys, the EU is putting together the pieces they need to keep up with AI and maintain their ability to leverage their control mechanisms upon the FAANGS. Realpolitk wise they absolutely cannot risk regulatory capture to a few select firms on the west coast of the USA. Altman himself threatened (for a brief period) to cut off GPT to the EU after…

> Along with (hopefully) that french startup (Mistral) founded by the LLaMA guys, the EU is putting together the pieces they need to keep up with AI and maintain their ability to leverage their control mechanisms upon the FAANGS. These nodes are generations old and basically only in use in German cars with their abysmal 'software'. The only touching point these processors will ever have with AI is as an API endpoint…

What abysmal software? The software in my VW is more than adequate.

Not that I see what interest I'd have in any kind of AI in my car.

Yes, these chips are for automotive and industrial use, what's the problem? Those are both important use cases.

You may think Europe is done, but who makes the EUV lithography machines used for TSMCs' cutting edge nodes? Who makes the leading ERP system used by a lot of companies around the world? Where was the Chrome V8 JavaScript engine developed?

The point is, Europe has plenty of innovation. But unlike the US, people don't go around boasting every chance they get. People just do stuff and are happy with that.

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