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A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

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Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#371

Post by astrostl »

jdminhbg wrote: post #305
Qwertious wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>* Consumers who care more about convenience and cost above all else, and reliability basically not at all Don't blame the consumer for this. It's just The Market For Lemons at work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons If you really need someone to blame, then blame the MBAs who buy up quality brands and then sell junk until the reputation is all ground up.

> It's just The Market For Lemons at work. It's not, really. Information about brand reliability is widely available. People just value different things.

"When you buy a new refrigerator, you probably expect it to last about a decade. Consumer Reports’ member surveys back up that claim, with 10 years being the median expected life span for a newly purchased refrigerator. But it turns out the odds of having a problem-free experience over that decade are not in your favor. Based on our most recent survey results, we estimate that 31 percent of all refrigerators will require repairs by the end of the fifth year of ownership, making them one of the least reliable products we analyze in our surveys."

Modern fridges are pretty terrible as an entire category, at all price points.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#372

Post by bluGill »

dublin wrote: post #332
api wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're only more affordable if you don't amortize the cost over a long period of time. You either buy high quality once or buy low quality multiple times. I've found that you usually have to go to high-end brands and/or "commercial grade" to get quality anything in the appliance space. A decent heuristic is also where it's made. For high-end brands some have certain models made in places like the USA and Germany and…

There is no product from China that I can name that is viewed as "quality" or "reliable" There is a reason that "Chinese shit" has effectively become a single word - it's a well-earned association. And despite being a leading IoT innovator for decades, myself (I designed and manufactured the world's first embedded web-enabled wireless and PoE sensors), there is almost nothing useful in having WiFi/Net-connected appli…

"back in my day kid"... Japan and Taiwan used to have a well earned reputation for being the source of cheap junk. They both have cleaned up and now deserve a reputation of quality. Only time will tell if China does better in the future (they have proven they can make quality, but they still are the source of cheap junk overall). Someone else may take over as the source of cheap junk next.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#373

Post by WorldMaker »

FeteCommuniste wrote: post #318
drcongo wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Samsung fridge is the worst thing I've ever bought.

Interesting. My Samsung TV will soon be 14 years old and still works perfectly. I wonder if there’s a general degradation of their products or it’s a kitchen appliance thing.

Samsung is an especially weird example because they always seem to be pendulum swinging between both poles. Some of their products some years use Tizen as the OS. Tizen is interesting and mostly rock solid, but has fewer aps. Some of their products some years use Android. Everyone knows what Android is, and it has tons of apps, but between Samsung's deep customizations and other factors, Android on Samsung products isn't always the best experience (less likely to be "rock solid", more questions about update support lifetimes, etc). Which products are which each year, from my consumer perspective, seems to be based on some sort of random number generator or other whims of weather in the executive suite that isn't visible from outside. (One visible factor, though, is the variable of how much money Google has thrown at them recently.)

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#374

Post by momirlan »

maccard wrote: post #126
momirlan wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

assuming the new one will last 2.5 years...

Barring something going horribly wrong, even the cheapest of cheap household appliances will last that, and more. Most major retailers offer longer retailer warranties than that. And, for an absolute bottom of the feature set appliance, a repair shop still exists

maybe in your universe. i lost count of appliances that failed after 1 year, where the vendor is asking for all sorts of pictures and then declares "it's not covered by warranty". repairing such item comes from own pocket, and -if possible - it's usually comparable to paying for it again

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#375

Post by Arrath »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #214
trwired wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is fine by me. I need a fridge to cool things down, oven to heat them up and TV to show moving pictures, all without access to wifi and other bells and whistles modern appliances come with. Just the basic stuff that those appliances could handle 20 years ago. More doesn't always translate to better.

> TV to show moving pictures, all without access to wifi You watch network TV ??? In 2023 ???

While I appreciate that joke (and likewise can't stand the ad loading of modern tv), OP may well use a stream box like a chromecast, roku, or firestick, or even a game console to do their watching through a plain dumb tv.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#376

Post by masklinn »

amluto wrote: post #340
masklinn wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly because you want very responsive temperature control, if the oven has a lot of insulation it's more efficient but it responds much more slowly to temperature decreases.

This should be straightforwardly solvable with an improved control algorithm. A well insulated oven cools much more slowly with the door closed, so a control algorithm can’t recover as quickly if it overshoots the set temperature.

It's not just a question of control algorithm, if have one dish you need high, and the next you need lower, you have not overshot anything but you need the oven to come down. No control algorithm will magic that out.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#377

Post by keymon-o »

karaterobot wrote: post #325
Night_Thastus wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get a little tired of repeating this, but there are some good reasons why fridges (and most appliances) are the way they are now: * Strong regulation on energy use by appliances (modern fridges are much, much more efficient than ones from 70 years ago) * Extreme competition from companies all over the world * Consumers who care more about convenience and cost above all else, and reliability basically not at all The…

> The other problem is really with consumers. Nobody ever wants to admit that they make bad choices, but this is the most important explanation for why a lot of stuff sucks. If people were willing to pay more for a reliable refrigerator, that's what would get made. In empirical fact, their actual priority is cheapness, so that's what they get.

Do you have any suggestions how at least a single consumer would initiate a demand for reliability? And how would a manufacturer declare and prove they indeed include reliability in their products?

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#378

Post by callalex »

dublin wrote: post #332
api wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're only more affordable if you don't amortize the cost over a long period of time. You either buy high quality once or buy low quality multiple times. I've found that you usually have to go to high-end brands and/or "commercial grade" to get quality anything in the appliance space. A decent heuristic is also where it's made. For high-end brands some have certain models made in places like the USA and Germany and…

There is no product from China that I can name that is viewed as "quality" or "reliable" There is a reason that "Chinese shit" has effectively become a single word - it's a well-earned association. And despite being a leading IoT innovator for decades, myself (I designed and manufactured the world's first embedded web-enabled wireless and PoE sensors), there is almost nothing useful in having WiFi/Net-connected appli…

Ever heard of iPhones? MacBook Pros?

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#379

Post by potta_coffee »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #366
potta_coffee wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not bullshit, my parents had the same fridge from when I was born until I graduated from college.

The claim was not that your parents’ fridge lasted 25 years, it was that appliances in general lasted 25 years. If that was true, manufacturers would have been advertising 25, or least 10, 15, 20 year warranties to win customers. Nobody putting their money where their mouth is is a better signal than anecdotal data.

I understand the claim. I know my experience is anecdotal but I think it's common enough that many people can relate. I don't really need empirical evidence for this one.

I also think it's common sense that companies go out of business when there's no repeat buyers because their products last a lifetime.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#380

Post by skyyler »

pixl97 wrote: post #308
indymike wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old lock handle fridges are surprisingly efficient. I have a 1949 Hotpoint and a 2022 LG. They both draw about the same amount of power when running, the difference is the Hotpoint runs less because it has four inches of insulation and a lock handle that seals much better than the drawer on the LG freezer. The only complaint with the Hotpoint is that it stays around 32.5°F which is too cold for veggies, but fantastic…

And a lock handle that kills your kid in an hour or your money back.

Simply do not have children.

Issue closed.

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