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Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#371

Post by mikro2nd »

londons_explore wrote: post #330
mikro2nd wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except they did not fix anything. The battery readout was lying as so ordered by Musk. This caused people to complain, wanting it fixed. Instead of fixing it (in a service centre or remotely) they lied some more. What's so hard to parse here?

I think the 'fix' was mostly checking that the car was working as designed, then calling people like this hn commenter[1], and educating them that slow gentle driving is how to get the estimated range, not aggressively braking and driving 90 mph with the AC on max, windows down, and the trunk loaded with 2000 lbs of junk. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36893587

The point is that "as designed" was really "designed to mislead" aka "lying", and they got caught red-handed.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#373

Post by mrguyorama »

tekla wrote: post #186
cevn wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use navigation, almost ever, after the first place I go somewhere. Therefore, the main battery estimator is just wrong. If it actually worked, as soon as you got to highway speeds you would see it half. Hiding the real estimation behind the navigation tool is cowardly

How is that any different from a ICE car? How is the car supposed to know how much energy you might be using in the future? Last time I checked, no ICE car has the ability to predict the future.

In my ICE car, if I drive around the town getting 28mpg, the "range" trends downwards to reflect the poor efficiency, while if I drive a certain route where I get 42mpg, the "range" meter will reflect that. It uses a quite long rolling average

Tesla COULD do that, but they don't on the main display because basing it on real data instead of garbage EPA data would produce a more conservative number and that would be harder to sell.

In my ICE car, all the places I can see range remaining have the same exact number, because doing anything else would be stupid and confusing.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#374

Post by panick21_ »

x86x87 wrote: post #288
rootusrootus wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most normal Tesla owners I'm familiar with just come to accept that the website range claim is complete horseshit. They go on with their lives and just don't worry about it. For around town, it'll get somewhat close to rated range anyway, and road trips aren't that common for most people. The supercharger network is pretty good, and if you have to stop every 200 miles instead of the rated 358, then so be it. Personal…

No. Sorry. Making the claim that most tesla owners do X is in my opinion horseshit. Tesla should be ashamed of themselves and should be sued into oblivion for false advertising. This is not a +/- 5%. This is a massive lie and a coverup.

They use the official process. Sue the EPA.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#375

Post by vel0city »

CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #339
vel0city wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a question of regen braking through. > climbing a mountain and then going down the other side does cost more net energy than driving the same distance on flat ground. You say this, but your reasoning is regen braking? What if you never had to brake the entire way? Where did all the energy going going up the hill go? If I carry a sack of sand up a hill and drop it, the amount of energy it has falling is equ…

Without any resistance or breaking you are correct, but in real life you do have to break. Non constant speed also makes it worse because resistance is not linear.

Resistance is the same as on flat ground. It shouldn't be making an impact in the whole going up and down the mountain. The amount of resistance you get going 10mi at 60mph is the same going up as going down as going flat. So we're still at you spent some extra energy going up, and now you have that extra energy going down.

I do get if you're needing to ride the brakes a lot you'll get a pretty big impact on range, but a lot of grades wouldn't require that.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#376

Post by stetrain »

steveBK123 wrote: post #323
stetrain wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have a range estimate based on recent driving, it’s just in a separate Energy page. “Accurate range” is difficult. It could be accurate based on recent driving, but that number could be very inaccurate if there is a change in weather or you are taking a different kind of drive than your last one.

Probably showing range in 3 different places that don't really agree is bad right? We are HN tech crowd here so its all fun & games hobbyist stuff. But normies do not want to get into these types of inane subtleties. Arguably the front & center, always-there range display should be the most accurate, not the least accurate.

Most accurate by what standard? Range depends on a bunch of factors. The range you got going to the store yesterday is not the range you will get driving to your friend’s house tomorrow.

The car doesn’t know where you are going, whether it is city or highway driving, whether or not there is an elevation change, unless you tell it by navigating somewhere.

It could take a guess, but that guess still has plenty of chances to be wrong if your next X miles of driving is not going to be similar to your previous X miles of driving.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#377

Post by shmatt »

rsynnott wrote: post #203
wredue wrote: post #70

>Inside the Nevada team’s office, some employees celebrated canceling service appointments by putting their phones on mute and striking a metal xylophone, triggering applause from coworkers who sometimes stood on desks. It’s weird how this sentence was probably supposed to surprise the reader, but I really just reflected on how the fans conduct themselves regularly and thought “yup, sounds about on par”.

This is standard Weird Sales Culture stuff, but it's a bit odd for customer support.

It's customer success except Elon is the customer

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#378

Post by panick21_ »

k4rli wrote: post #365
andykellr wrote: post #353

[flagged]

Sounds like you're an American who's either a Tesla employee or only owned American cars before. Their quality is mid-tier at best but the software appears to be so dangerous that I avoid driving behind/in front of a Tesla (in Europe).

The idea that "the best" car is the one with the most "luxery" interior is just not how most people judge.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#379

Post by shwoopdiwoop »

vagab0nd wrote: post #51

Not just battery and range. I've had problems with the passenger side airbag not enabling, and turn signal not working. Both scary issues. Made appointments with the support. Both were cancelled outright by them (!). They tried to convince me that there was no problem, and it was all due to the way I use the car. They seemed to try everything to get out of appointments. My wife had to use the back seat for a month wh…

I thought it was just me! Trying to control turn signals is beyond infuriating in a Model Y. You would think that this should be part of the functionality that is largely free of bugs..

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#380

Post by not2b »

e136 wrote: post #312
dinom wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> able to get a tow truck capable of transporting my car (turns out you need one that has a full bed because of the regenerative breaking Sounds incredibly short-sighted that the regenerative braking can't be temporarily disabled by the driver... two people can push a "regular" car to a nearby gas station in a pinch. Even one person can push a smaller car around a parking lot if necessary. That said, they often send…

Most cars have one or more clutches to put the car in neutral. This is required so the engine can idle while the car stands still, among other reasons. Electric cars don't need to idle and therefore don't have any clutches in the drivetrain. Adding clutches just for allowing the user to push around the car seems needlessly complicated and over optimizing for a scenario that will not occur for the majority of cars.

"a scenario that will not occur for the majority of cars" isn't the standard, otherwise there would be no need to require most safety features, as the majority of cars never get into a major crash.

If a car runs out of charge or malfunctions, it would help everyone if it is easier to move it so it doesn't block traffic. It might be wise to make this a requirement. Seems to me that a clutch that simply switches between connected and neutral and that only operates when the car isn't moving would be far simpler and cheaper than a clutch that handles shifting between different gears while the engine is turning.

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