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Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

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Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#371

Post by kalleboo »

btown wrote: post #162

From the spec author, in 2022 [0]: > I decided to make this an app in the end. This is where my costs started wracking up. I had to pay for a second hand macbook pro to build an iOS app. Apple’s strategy with this is obvious, and it clearly works, but it still greatly upsets me that I couldn’t just build an app with my linux laptop. If I want the app to persist for longer than a month, and to make it easy for friends…

I don't think it's double-think, it's just a lack of consequential thinking. I believe the writers of the spec when they say that they just want to be able to see which ad views are real or not. They even lay out some (far too weak) ideas to keep the system from being mandatory and abusable. But they don't realize just how quickly things will go out of hand once the rest of the organization realizes what they have created.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#372

Post by lnxg33k1 »

scarface_74 wrote: post #368
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you break the interest of showing ads from google search/adwords, to the interest of surfinh web freely of those who would work on chrome Now google has both the need to show ads, and direct power on what people use to see those ads

How do you think the “Chrome company” would be funded? How is Firefox funded today.

Is Firefox consistently trying to find ways to show you ads? Are they working on technology that helps profiling you?

One thing is funding, keeeping independence, another is controlling

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#373

Post by alex_suzuki »

nfw2 wrote: post #351

I don't see how this will end the "free web." No publisher will be forced to use DRM. Anyone can still create a website and make it accessible to anyone for free with an internet connection. If certain publishers want to require ads to view their content, that seems like their prerogative.

Until Google Search starts punishing sites that don’t require a trusted execution environment…

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#375

Post by devsda »

supernikio2 wrote: post #284
Ygg2 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Future web will require you to have certified browser - Chrome ™, to access the web. It will require certified OS Windows™, running on trusted Hardware TPM™, running trusted firmware CIA™. You'll have no choice and your love will be mandatory. This won't stop malware of course. However a skull clamp will be installed to monitor your thoughts and you will be zapped if undesirable thoughts are detected. Note: it's a hy…

Can Google really do this? What if I'm using Safari on OS X, or Firefox on Linux?

This not only requires Google but websites also need to implement.

The problem is given the number of Google's services, it can easily "nudge" site owners into implementing it.

They can make it mandatory for adwords or analytics or any other service that they have for webmasters and everyone will have to jump in while it is still technically voluntary.

If your $bank choses to implement it, then it can very well mandate only windows or osx clients. Then you can't use firefox on linux.

This may sound like conspiracy theory but we already have examples of similar restrictions on android apps with safetynet. Bank apps already refuse to run on custom roms. It will not be limited to banks. Someone mentioned that McDonald's app doesn't work unless you pass safetynet.

That is how ridiculous it can become.

Edit: fixed typos

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#376

Post by mort96 »

wsgeorge wrote: post #251
kristiandupont wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with Youtube? I haven't noticed anything.

TBF YouTube has gotten better (see sibling comment), but Google Meet is really what matters here for me. There's also offline mode in Google Docs, which I use regularly because I'm not guaranteed a good-enough connection wherever I go. Firefox does some things better (like PiP video playback on most websites, like YouTube!) but others are so poorly done (like Profiles) compared to Chrome that it overall makes Chrome…

I never used Firefox profiles, but Firefox container tabs work really well IMO. I much prefer them to Chrome's profiles for managing work vs personal logins.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#377

Post by bagacrap »

lacrimacida wrote: post #305
mardifoufs wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the US break up an asset like Google? Would be completely self defeating. This isn't like standard oil or at&t, that mostly had influence and market share inside the US. It would basically be handing power to foreign competitors who would pounce at the opportunity And I'm not American so it's not even some sort of patriotic comment. If Europe , or anywhere else, had a Google sized Behemoth, they wouldn't m…

One thing comes to mind: antitrust! It happened to Microsoft as well!!

...and Microsoft has more power than Google at the moment

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#378

Post by kmeisthax »

martimarkov wrote: post #257
kmeisthax wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only did iOS implement this, but everyone either sleep-walked on it, or worse, praised it , because Apple sold it as a CAPTCHA bypass instead of a DRM scheme: https://mastodon.delroth.net/@delroth/110775677023220850

How is PrivacyPass related to iOS?

PrivacyPass is an extension that lets you pre-solve CloudFlare CAPTCHAs if you're on a VPN. However, that was too frustrating, so CloudFlare partnered with Apple to integrate PrivacyPass into Safari.

How did they do this? Simple: iOS provides cryptographic attestation that your browser isn't a bot and isn't hacked, and CloudFlare takes that as your CAPTCHA solution. This works exactly the same way that Google proposes Web Environment Integrity work.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#379

Post by throw_m239339 »

nonane wrote: post #120
smallstepforman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Browser application needs to pass a binary image check, and if the browser hash doesn't match Google database, you cannot proceed to the website (since your browser may be corrupted). A major big deal for non main-stream browser, and for non Google browser developers, extension developers (eg. AdBlock), etc. In summary, some websites (like banks, Netflix, etc) will no longer be available for non mainstream browse…

Can you please explain why a third party browser can’t lie about its hash, just like it can lie about it’s user agent?

> Can you please explain why a third party browser can’t lie about its hash, just like it can lie about it’s user agent?

Because that thing basically describes a proprietary plugin like Activex, Silverlight or Flash before it, so a third party browser which doesn't have that proprietary tech can't fake it, under pretense of "standard". The code of that plugin will not be open source, worse, it will act as a spyware on people's computers at the OS level.

It's like EME before and these proprietary techs have no place in a open standard spec.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#380

Post by timeon »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #350
wsgeorge wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some Google services I regularly depend on (like YouTube and Google Meet) don't work as well on Firefox as they do on Chrome, in ways that actually matter. Besides that I think most websites work fine.

I believe google has intentionally made google maps near unusable in firefox. It's been consistently working worse and worse every year. I feel like about 8 years ago there used to be parity between them.

I rarely use google maps so haven't noticed. Only thing I really miss from OSM based services is street-view.
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