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Young people are flocking to astrology

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#371

Post by bombolo »

sneak wrote: post #248
LargeTomato wrote: post #37

My girlfriend is in the middle of her PhD program and is very intelligent but she's really into this stuff. She makes comments about it in public and I cringe. But the worst part is that half my female friends and all my gay friends love astrology. It's very weird.

> is very intelligent but she's really into this stuff These can't both be true. Being in a PhD program is not a sign of intelligence. Belief in astrology is a clear sign of lack of intelligence.

You're downvoted but it's true… anyway one can have a phd from a bullshit university in a bullshit field. Not all phds are decent.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#372

Post by bowsamic »

LinXitoW wrote: post #315
lm28469 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we really surprised that after destroying religions and traditions young people look for things other than money and careers ? Almost as if consumerism was showing its limits...

That feels like a false dichotomy. You can have beliefs outside of consumerism without resorting to religions or traditions.

Such as?

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#373

Post by jacquesm »

uwagar wrote: post #90

the reason this is happening is science and rational thinking has really let them down in their lifetime, especially during the pandemic. they (and people in general) dont know what is real anymore, what to believe any more when everyone seems to be making up things as they go along, especially the so-called experts. why not review everything they have access to but told by the experts not to pay attention? ie they w…

> the reason this is happening is science and rational thinking has really let them down in their lifetime, especially during the pandemic.

No it hasn't. Science and rational thinking are part of the reason that many are still alive. Without vaccines the number of dead would be far, far higher than it ended up being (and people are still dying of COVID right now, but fortunately in lower numbers and it looks like we can safely say the pandemic is behind us and chances of it flaring up again are low).

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#374

Post by hereonout2 »

nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

I could imagine a much younger version of myself getting into an argument like this.

Now days I just don't care, people like their own things and do stuff I disagree with or don't understand all the time. Live and let live, nod politely and try and steer the conversation to a topic of interest or even better find someone else to talk to.

I like to think age has steadied me, but maybe I've just lost the will or become misanthropic.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#375

Post by valianteffort »

varjag wrote: post #345
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an int…

There is no qualitative difference between belief in astrology and any of the world's religions. Not saying you're not entitled in disregarding astrology believers but the cut-off point is completely arbitrary and dare I say irrational.

I'm sure on some level, the position of the earth, moon, sun, and planets has some effect on all life. These things are intertwined afterall. It would be interesting to gather data that could make assertions about someone based on when they were born. However it's clear other things have a far grater impact on someones development, like whether they have a father, financial situation, etc.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#376

Post by permo-w »

pyinstallwoes wrote: post #316
permo-w wrote: post #14

I think the easy way to look at this is that a certain segment of society will always want to believe in something beyond the observable world with the decline of organised religion amongst Western Europeans, astrology is one way they fill that void if astrology doesn't float your boat, there's always witchcraft and tarot, or crystals and alternative medicine. or if you're less inclined towards new-age horse you can…

"I think the easy way to look at this is that a certain segment of society will always want to believe in something beyond the observable world" So nearly every scientist that is known for introducing a paradigm shift in history? Most often these scientists or inventors do not have something in the observable world, they rely on their imagination and spark of intuition to craft their way towards a representation in t…

I agree and I'd edit my comment to include this if I still could. who knows what more there is in the world beyond our senses. actual reality is not observable

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#377

Post by machina_ex_deus »

varjag wrote: post #345
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an int…

There is no qualitative difference between belief in astrology and any of the world's religions. Not saying you're not entitled in disregarding astrology believers but the cut-off point is completely arbitrary and dare I say irrational.

To me there is an a huge difference. I can accept religions, which are adding axioms that aren't falsifiable, and that are usually taught to a person when he is a child. And religions had their roles in shaping society for good.

I can accept conspiracy theories and disbelieving the known consensus.

I just can't accept a person who, in the age where we know exactly how planets move and what they are, decided to believe they have correlation with psychology.

It's the worst. It shows the person doesn't even try to connect cause and effect in a meaningful way, and in astrology this is all there is to it. No epistemology. No logic. It's one thing to believe in unfalsifiable things, and another to believe in falsifiable things that we fully understand and have no causual relationship.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#378

Post by namaria »

enw wrote: post #362
drumhead wrote: post #250

Young women are flocking to astrology. But it's always been a thing with them. Most guys just see it as bullshit.

And some gay men. If straight guys talked seriously about astrology they'd immediately get clowned on.

It's about emotion-based cognition. I think straight guys would do well to be more insightful about how deeply entangled emotions and cognition are. Don't get me wrong, astrology is most definitely bunk. Still people can get some reflection out of it that wouldn't be available trying to be very rational and clinical about everything all the time.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#379

Post by kypro »

nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

> I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign.

> I told her her beliefs were akin to racism.

I get your point, and perhaps I'm miss reading your tone here, but I think you took this way too far.

I 100% get your point – I'm autistic as hell and I appreciate your logical comparison to racism because I hadn't consider this perspective before, but I think this girl was probably just trying to be friendly?

Intent is important. Someone can hold "racist" views implicitly while meaning no harm, but that's very different from a person who is racist and wishes harm based on someone's race. Calling someone "racist" is not nice and in this case seems far too strong a word given the context.

Astrology might be silly, but it's limited in harm. It's similar to religion in that most people just think of it as a way to guide and improve their lives. In a world that's increasingly irreligious Astrology is obviously going to appeal to people with a less logical, evidence based outlook on life.

My girlfriend is into Astrology. I mock her a little for it and try to explain to her why it's silly, but I think she feels like it gives her some level of control over things in her life that would otherwise feel random.

But more importantly, she's not like me. She doesn't think about this stuff in depth or care if all of her views are logically consistent. I don't even think she denies what I'm saying when I point out how stupid Astrology is, I just don't think it matters to her like it does to me. A lot of people are like this.

I guess I think it's fine to question Astrology and even mock it a little, but calling people racist and bigoted for believing in it is just cruel and unnecessary.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#380

Post by ehnto »

YurgenJurgensen wrote: post #205
maxbond wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many human experiences are better understood by means that are not scientific. Life is full of aesthetic, moral, spiritual, and even unanswerable questions. Science is incredible and beautiful and profound - but it's not everything. I can't remember what TV show I heard this on, but I like it; "the true sweetness of wine is... but one flavor." (ETA: The show was Marco Polo.)

How do you know that you're actually "understanding" these experiences and not just making up whatever confirms your preconceptions?

I guess it wouldn't matter, a lot of the human experience is dogmatic. It's not necessarily wrong to experience life through minor misunderstandings, especially ones that make life more bearable. I am a little jealous of people who believe they go to heaven for one example. The experience of their entire life may be enriched by that, whereas I gain nothing by not believing in it.
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