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A third of North America’s birds have vanished

nautil.us

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Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#371

Post by nebula8804 »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #264
23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

I find it hilarious, that no one mentions the real solution. Of course, once it's spoken it's obvious why it can't even be spoken aloud... 5. Exterminate all stray/unlicensed cats, exterminate all indoor cats if caught outside and fine the registered owners $50,000. If I posted this on reddit, I'd have maniacs stalking me and issuing death threats. Maybe here it'll only be hatemail.

They are actually trying to do this in australia: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/25/magazine/australia-cat-ki...

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#372

Post by adrianN »

zerodensity wrote: post #369
badpun wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Producing solar panels requires an advanced technical civilization being in place. You cannot jump from middle ages tech to producing solar panels with skipping dependence on fossil fuels in the intermediate steps.

You can still use water and wind which are also powered by the sun.

We had water and wind power for centuries before the industrial revolution happened.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#373

Post by flagrant_taco »

bmitc wrote: post #306
bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, no one cares about the planet, and rightfully so. The planet will be fine. It's humankind that's at stake.

> The planet will be fine. It's humankind that's at stake. This is oft repeated, but it fails short of anything meaningful. The planet, as in a rock floating around in space, will be fine, yes. But what about the untold amount of species of plants and animals that are suffering and will continue to suffer in our wake?

Hopefully many of them outlast us regardless of what stupid things we do, but yes this is a very real risk and we could take down a huge portion of diverse life on the planet with us.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#374

Post by flagrant_taco »

aziaziazi wrote: post #328
flagrant_taco wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The planet will bounce back one way or another, short of a global nuclear war I don't see how we can do more damage than the asteroid that took out the dinausaurs. Humans just may not be here to enjoy it if we can't get out of the way and stop consuming natural resources for the sake Of GDP growth.

It’s not about the planet being fine or not, it’s about the planet being a nice place to live for our descents. Your ascends made a nice job to get you a better life. Removing birds species won’t help in that direction, as well as a ton of other direct and indirect stuff we make happening here.

I completely agree and in no way do I like what we are collectively doing to this planet. I try to live a pretty minimal life and limit my impact on the environment. But the fact is that we seem hell-bent on running the planet for our own gain and it would take a miracle at this point for us to pull out of the tailspin, even if we actually had the will.

I can only speak to the people I've engaged with in the US and parts of Europe, but people aren't really willing to make the changes that really seem most important to me. Drastically reducingoil use, for example, would make a big difference but would destroy the GDP measure that many countries value so highly and would cause a huge shock to most every industry in the world. We've grown too dependant on industrialized food, easy access to products, and the power of leveraging cheap energy to go back to doing most things manually or with the help of animal power.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#375

Post by CaptainPistache »

arcticbull wrote: post #281
bmitc wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individuals cannot solve this. I leave trees up, dead or alive. I plant native plants. I remove invasive species. I only keep invasive bushes if they house birds. I don't spray for insects except around the base of my house, I don't kill off chipmunks, voles, squirrels, rabbits, etc. How can this compete with the dozens of neighbors in a half-mile radius that have removed in excess of hundreds of trees, big ones like…

I think it might have something to do with feral and outdoor cats killing 1.4-3.7 billion birds per year in the US alone. [1] Individuals can do something here I wager, between education and taking responsibility by spaying and neutering. It’s pretty wild to me that cats aren’t mentioned at all in this article since they’re absolutely massacring wild birds. They’re the leading cause of both bird and small mammal deat…

Over the last 27 years, 75% of the flying insects biomass has disappeared because of human activity. But it must be cats !

I wonder how humanity would deal with a 75% of our food supply disappearing by 2050. Cats would certainly take over us...

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#376

Post by flagrant_taco »

bmitc wrote: post #304
flagrant_taco wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The planet will bounce back one way or another, short of a global nuclear war I don't see how we can do more damage than the asteroid that took out the dinausaurs. Humans just may not be here to enjoy it if we can't get out of the way and stop consuming natural resources for the sake Of GDP growth.

Of what use is this argument? It always comes up. The entire planet is suffering.

I can't speak for anyone else that may have said something similar, but for me this is an observation rather than an argument. I don't want this to be what happens, I simply haven't seen any meaningful number of people actually willing to make the types of changes that would reverse this course.

Getting rid of or drastically reducing oil use would be a huge step in the right direction, and probably one of the most meaningful things we could do today. That will never happen by choice though, we're way too dependant on cheap energy and the conceniences (and economics) it provides.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#378

Post by mbg721 »

b112 wrote: post #339
idleproc wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that cats kill a lot of birds and something needs to be done about this. However, when you also have articles stating that migratory fish and insect populations have declined by 75% over the last 50 years [1,2] (which clearly isn't caused by outdoor cats) it would seem to me there are larger forces at work. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/27/migrator... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/env…

I agree that cats kill a lot of birds and something needs to be done about this. Outside of birds, cats kill rodents. I live in rural Quebec, near farms, a massive nature preserve, and a national park larger than small US states. When I first moved here, I had no cat, and several other neighbours were new to the area. Old houses, not fresh builds, just changeover of owners... they too with no cats. The first year I w…

Some cats kill rodents. Mine (indoor cats) can't be bothered.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#379

Post by ztetranz »

jjallen wrote: post #239
bmitc wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individuals cannot solve this. I leave trees up, dead or alive. I plant native plants. I remove invasive species. I only keep invasive bushes if they house birds. I don't spray for insects except around the base of my house, I don't kill off chipmunks, voles, squirrels, rabbits, etc. How can this compete with the dozens of neighbors in a half-mile radius that have removed in excess of hundreds of trees, big ones like…

Yeah when 99% of people don't care about this sort of issue or are unaware of it and keep cutting trees down it doesn't matter if a few people are doing all they can. I go home to my parents' neighborhood in Florida and more and more of the trees are disappearing in a 100-year-old neighborhood. It's not even new houses being built. These are 50-year old houses. There is 1 house in the entire neighborhood (has to be a…

>There is 1 house in the entire neighborhood (has to be at least 1,000 houses) that had a "no mow may" sign for the bees

That would be a huge HOA violation in many places.

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