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France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

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Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#371

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

seszett wrote: post #261
karaterobot wrote: post #11

> But lawmakers agreed to the bill late Wednesday as Justice Minister Eric Dupond-Moretti insisted the bill would affect only “dozens of cases a year.” Technically he is not lying or naive, because any number, including large numbers like 66 million, can be expressed in units of dozens.

> dozens I find it funny that "dizaines" (tens) got translated to "dozens" (which would be "douzaines", but is rarely used except for eggs).

To be fair, in English, the word "tens" is much more rare than "dozens."

In this context they're largely interchangeable, but "tens" is much more clunky and probably a worse translation.

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#372

Post by xethos »

soared wrote: post #269
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. They can locate anyone's phone on demand. The services that do this can generate a likely street address from GPS or tower triangulated location. This is how many criminals now get caught while on the run. It isn't magic police work but rather the personal tracking device everyone carries. Likewise some spree killers have been tracked down by geofencing phones known to be around all crime scenes and zeroing in on…

Source?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensorvault is for Google, with the 3 linked sources being very fun reads.

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#373

Post by le_pet »

hellojesus wrote: post #360
le_pet wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as the police aren't allowed to install a bugging device in the house of a suspect without judicial permission, they're not permitted to remotely surveil a suspect's phone without such permission either. So your comparison of this limited additional capability to "allow police to enter anyone's home at any time" is not relevant. And trying to draw a parallel to "let the police shoot a fleeing suspect" is absurd.

But the NSA has been proven to be doing it without warrant, at will, and then lying to Congress and the American people about doing it, and then saying it was a good thing they did the thing they said they didn't do which was also illegal that they did. It will be abused instantly.

That is a US intelligence agency, whose mission is by necessity shrouded in secrecy. They are not the French police, the work of whom typically will be presented in an open court for scrutiny.

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#374

Post by koonsolo »

JohnFen wrote: post #308
donatj wrote: post #180

United States, couple years ago my friend in his mid-thirties was feeling depressed after his mom died. Came over to hang out, and wasn’t responding to his sisters calls. His sister called in a welfare check on him and suddenly I have three cops knocking at my front door. They ask for him by name, say he isn’t in trouble. I go get him; he asks “how did you know where I was?” and the cops say “we pinged your phone”. W…

> the cops say “we pinged your phone”. What that entails exactly I have no clue. The cell phone infrastructure knows where your phone is. It has to in order for it to operate. The police routinely ask cell phone companies for locations of cell phones. Many (most?) not only won't require a warrant, but provide an official portal the police can use to conduct their queries without having to get a phone company employee…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but cell phone companies only know which tower you are currently connected to. So it's pretty inaccurate. The only thing that is "house accurate" is the GPS on your phone. That means they need access to your phone to get that info.

Remark that GPS doesn't need to be turned on. Google mapped all Wifi's and so can locate you without GPS.

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#375

Post by xdrosenheim »

varispeed wrote: post #286
Awelton wrote: post #126

They could at least have the decency to just secretly do it and then pretend like they aren't, like our government does. This is why physical switches and removable batteries are the only way forward.

> and removable batteries Probably that's why the batteries are not removable in the phones...

Meh, phones with removable batteries are still being made. Samsung's Galaxy Cover line has plenty of phones with removable batteries. Some even feature the much feared IP68.

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#376

Post by koonsolo »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #230
paxys wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite all the technology in the world the majority of police work is still plain old-fashioned knocking on doors and making phone calls. People will always voluntarily give up all the information in the world to be seen as good citizens. In your friend's case I'm willing to bet that they asked the sister for the names of his close friends and acquaintances and yours matched up.

No. They can locate anyone's phone on demand. The services that do this can generate a likely street address from GPS or tower triangulated location. This is how many criminals now get caught while on the run. It isn't magic police work but rather the personal tracking device everyone carries. Likewise some spree killers have been tracked down by geofencing phones known to be around all crime scenes and zeroing in on…

Cell phones are only connected to 1 tower afaik. So no triangulation is possible, only the tower they are connected to, which is very broad.

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#377

Post by [deleted] »

mcpackieh wrote: post #351
hollerith wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "on demand" makes it read like they don't need to get a warrant whereas your link describes a missing-children investigation that had already made the national news, i.e., a situation in which getting a warrant would be very easy.

A warrant can be "on demand" within minutes if you can get a judge to pick up his phone.

[deleted]

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#378

Post by sparrish »

fsflover wrote: post #324
rtkwe wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's always the faraday bag or simply not taking it to your meeting/activity that have been the recommended options for opsec even when phones had removable batteries.

I prefer hardware kill switches (and my phone has them).

Which phone is that?

Re: France passes bill to allow police remotely activate phone camera, microphone

#380

Post by koonsolo »

ubermonkey wrote: post #250
donatj wrote: post #180

United States, couple years ago my friend in his mid-thirties was feeling depressed after his mom died. Came over to hang out, and wasn’t responding to his sisters calls. His sister called in a welfare check on him and suddenly I have three cops knocking at my front door. They ask for him by name, say he isn’t in trouble. I go get him; he asks “how did you know where I was?” and the cops say “we pinged your phone”. W…

Triangulation by cell tower is really, really accurate.

How can you triangulate if you're only connected to 1 tower?
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