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Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

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Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#371

Post by __loam »

com2kid wrote: post #131
add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #33

We're on the cusp of a profound content shovelware crisis. It will happen regardless, but any oasis of real content will become important. Automation will be a force multiplier for laziness and predation more so than for creativity.

We are also on the cusp of individual developers being able to produce works that used to take entire teams. I'm working on simulating a small town using Generative AI agents, schedules, social interactions, realistic reactions to outside events, dialogue between characters, the whole shebang. A year ago that wasn't an "after work side project". I just did a full launch on https://www.generativestorytelling.ai/ - a s…

We're on the cusp of low skill know nothings flooding the internet with low quality trash. AI produced content will not have value because you don't add anything meaningful to that process, you're entirely subordinated to the quirks of whatever models you're using. How do you compete in a sea of games that look exactly like yours because you're all using the same garbage to build the aesthetic value of your game?

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#372

Post by __loam »

imdsm wrote: post #61
minimaxir wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Massive amounts of shovelware on Steam is most definitely not a new phenomenon.

Amazon is more like eBay than eBay now Steam is like eBay but for low quality games It happens to them all. There are big games on steam, but 95% of the stuff on there is low value, low cost content

Steam has systems in place to bubble high quality work to the top.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#373

Post by XCSme »

__loam wrote: post #364
XCSme wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how does this work for YouTube for example? People still upload copyrighted stuff, even if the ToS says you shouldn't.

YouTube has to comply with things like DMCA takedowns.

So, shouldn't Steam too?

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#374

Post by __loam »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #63
add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #33

We're on the cusp of a profound content shovelware crisis. It will happen regardless, but any oasis of real content will become important. Automation will be a force multiplier for laziness and predation more so than for creativity.

>We're on the cusp of a profound content shovelware crisis. Everywhere. Games, porn, text, articles, music, etc. For the generation that grew up with the internet already existing, this is their epoch moment, lives pre and post generative AIs. I was thinking the other day that original artworks are going to be far more valued with a glut of AI generated. Thinking slightly ahead, you can find your absolute favorite ar…

> Well, thanks to AI being able to learn and determine where brush strokes would land, we take advancements from 3D printers and your desktop painting rig picks up a brush and paints it just as the artist would have.

Good luck convincing enough people in the art community to give you data on their process so you can do this. There's definitely enough out there in things like PSD files but the AI community has been so rude and antagonistic to art communities that most of them have a kneejerk hate reaction on any mention of the technology, and rightfully so. AI users and companies have been gleefully abusing artists from day 1.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#376

Post by hedora »

kube-system wrote: post #342
hedora wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what if the wind blows, and my laptop falls off a shelf and writes the source code for windows 95, but reindented, with some implementation details and variable names changed? It’s pretty clear that the “neural networks are just a tool” ruling is going to have to be revisited eventually (and probably soon).

> But what if the wind blows, and my laptop falls off a shelf and writes the source code for windows 95, but reindented, with some implementation details and variable names changed? Simple. If it wasn't created by a human, it's not eligible for copyright. The law is quite clear about this. Microsoft gets the copyright to Windows 95 because they wrote it with humans. You wouldn't get it because you didn't write it. Yo…

But, if my laptop’s implementation of windows 95 is not eligible for copyright protection, then I can freely redistribute it because no one can use copyright law to stop me, in a runaround of Microsoft’s copyright on windows 95 (which the laptop generated version is clearly a derivative of).

This is exactly the ambiguity Valve is concerned about.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#377

Post by teaearlgraycold »

olddustytrail wrote: post #285
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll be interesting to see if a game can make good use of that, but it sounds like it would lead to some very frustrating interactions.

Have you tried it? As in, prompt the LLM that it's the character you want and then converse?

I've used GPT for DnD type stuff. It's really good if you don't have an existing expectation of the world you're in, as everything should be a hallucination. Within the context window LLMs are pretty internally consistent, so within a chat session it'll be surprisingly coherent and human-like. But inside of a full game world like Skyrim, each hallucination could lead to wasted time finding the magic scroll the LLM told you about but never existed. If you can think of a style of game where hallucinations aren't a problem, or a way to put the LLM on rails so that it won't hallucinate too much then I think players will have a good time.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#378

Post by Matticus_Rex »

__loam wrote: post #362
Matticus_Rex wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans take in inputs and transform what they learn into distinct outputs. Training data is essentially just a machine doing the same thing. Knowingly scraping pirated material would be one thing, but essentially having the machine view publicly-available material is not clearly at odds with existing IP law.

What humans do when they learn is a completely separate issue and has absolutely nothing to do with how this technology is regulated.

It's the most analogous process we have; the courts may not end up treating them the same, but it's unlikely they'll say it has nothing to do with how AI gets regulated.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#379

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

__loam wrote: post #374
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We're on the cusp of a profound content shovelware crisis. Everywhere. Games, porn, text, articles, music, etc. For the generation that grew up with the internet already existing, this is their epoch moment, lives pre and post generative AIs. I was thinking the other day that original artworks are going to be far more valued with a glut of AI generated. Thinking slightly ahead, you can find your absolute favorite ar…

> Well, thanks to AI being able to learn and determine where brush strokes would land, we take advancements from 3D printers and your desktop painting rig picks up a brush and paints it just as the artist would have. Good luck convincing enough people in the art community to give you data on their process so you can do this. There's definitely enough out there in things like PSD files but the AI community has been so…

Why would you assume it would need to be given? If you examine a painting with enough care, you could work out a few brush strokes. Now hand that to an AI that can process everything and come up with a style and how to paint it.

If you are making a thing, there is evidence of how it was made. Patten match enough of it and you’re done.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#380

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

draugadrotten wrote: post #272
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We're on the cusp of a profound content shovelware crisis. Everywhere. Games, porn, text, articles, music, etc. For the generation that grew up with the internet already existing, this is their epoch moment, lives pre and post generative AIs. I was thinking the other day that original artworks are going to be far more valued with a glut of AI generated. Thinking slightly ahead, you can find your absolute favorite ar…

> Maybe the artist will have to print it on location while you watch. For the music industry, this happened already. Artists makes a lot more money from live performances than from album sales or streaming fees.

That’s a good analogy. And it’s right.
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