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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#371

Post by rendaw »

thrashh wrote: post #228
codetrotter wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many of them may not even exist any longer making it near impossible to get any sort of permission to do something like this So plan ahead. For the 2024 model of each iPhone, get all the permissions to release all of the firmware in year 2032.

The usual concern with regulation is not the big players. It’s the smaller products and businesses that cease to exist because it’s too expensive to meet regulations. Bad regulation raises the cost of entry into the market and strengthens the big players like Apple.

How would _this_ regulation raise the cost of entry? At worst they'd just have to release the source code for the firmware they wrote (putting source code on github takes maybe 5m).

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#372

Post by HWR_14 »

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

Apple mobile devices seem to get deprecated when the hardware is no longer meaningful. The last two deprecation were (a) only 1GB of RAM and (b) 32-bit chips.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#373

Post by stickfigure »

JohnFen wrote: post #218
stickfigure wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When battery life is a concern, I carry around a small flashlight and a (very) short USB cable. The flashlight can both receive charge (from the wall) and send charge (to the phone) through its USB port. Lots of high-end flashlights do this. Mine isn't much larger than the 21700 cell it contains. If you want to go smaller you can get a 1850-based flashlight and still almost double the capacity of your phone. Plus, it…

But it doesn't really address the use case well. It won't fully charge the phone and it takes time to do the charging.

I don't understand. Why won't it fully charge the phone? And you can use the phone while it's plugged in. In all respects it gives you ~2X the number of useful hours at the cost of having to carry around a very small item.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#374

Post by redeeman »

diegoholiveira wrote: post #319
beefield wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the owners/companies no longer exist, then I would think the IP should be free by default. Perhaps that's another law to work on... I think I have even more elegant solution. All IP should be subject to a tax (or maintenance fee or whatever you want to call it). As soon as the IP owner fails to pay the tax, IP falls to public domain irrevocably. The actual structure of the tax can be subject to debate. I would p…

The money made with the IP is taxable. I can support your proposal only if the IP taxes are deductible from incoming tax.

and the money i use to pay for goods was already charged income tax, and then it gets charged sales tax, which is bigger than otherwise since it is a percentage, and the workers who produced the product is income taxed, and have to pay salestax for their food...... its hardly as if the regimes around the world have any problems with taxing things to hell

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#375

Post by nologic01 »

Good.

The next step should be to charge the true price of e-waste. People are entitled to their consumerist obsessions - they just need to pay for cleaning-up the pollution their create for the rest of us.

A phone with replaceable/ugradeable parts and software updates would probably last decades. The disposable culture must come to an end before it disposes all of us.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#376

Post by tempestn »

prmoustache wrote: post #173
saxonww wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder about this. First, it seems like you could just make the phone part waterproof and if they dunk it, they have to replace the battery. I have ruined a phone by putting it through the wash, and I would have been very happy to just replace the battery instead of chucking the phone. Beyond that, I wonder what the reality is for waterproofing needs. Are people taking smartphones diving? IP65 means it's resistant…

Most waterproof norms are only valid for freshwater. Most usb/lightning ports rust after being subjected to salted water and you end up not being able to charge your device anymore.

This can be largely mitigated by rinsing/soaking the device in fresh water to dissolve the salt.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#377

Post by tempestn »

crimsontech wrote: post #288
jrm4 wrote: post #143

Just broadly, let me just echo my full throated support for regulation in this space. Forget the vast majority of the goofy "innovation" arguments I hear, the fact that 3 family cell phones, 2 laptops, Steam Deck, Nintendo Switch, and Oculus can all use the same charger makes insanely more sense that what we were doing before.

In some ways (convenience). I think it will also lead to not supplying the device with a charging / data transfer cable to reduce e-waste. Lighting connector is actually better than USB-C for a phone charger, there is no little contact to snap off inside a lighting port and it’s easy to clean pocket lint out of the lighting port with a tooth pick. This isn’t the case with USB-C, it’s more fragile and harder to remove…

Are you thinking of a magsafe connector? A lightning connector definitely does have a little end that can snap off, and that in my experience (with children) is less robust than a USB-C.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#378

Post by pmoriarty »

pwg wrote: post #311
deelowe wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this would work given modern supply chains. It can be extremely difficult to track down all of the owners of a particular IP and when you do, many of them may not even exist any longer making it near impossible to get any sort of permission to do something like this.

IP permissions, i.e., copyrights, are not natural rights, they are instead government "grants" of protection. And protection granted by government decree can also be taken away by government decree. So no "permission" to release would be necessary if government's modified ther copyright laws to withdraw their granted protections after some "event" occurred. The bigger problem is not the permission, it is actually fin…

"IP permissions, i.e., copyrights, are not natural rights, they are instead government "grants" of protection"

There's no such thing as a natural right, period. They're all imaginary creations of humans.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#379

Post by gumballindie »

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

All firmware should be open source, including drivers and particularly graphics drivers. It boggles the mind that a hardware manufacturer refuses to make available the source of the software that actually runs the hardware you paid for.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#380

Post by kgantchev »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #367
xenadu02 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make this claim but have you ever worked in product design for something trying to achieve an IP water and dust ingress rating? It is far more than "just a gasket and a few screws". The rating can't just be good on unboxing day. You want it to hold even after a few years, several drops on the floor, in cold weather, etc.

Controlling water in machines is not new, neither is phone design. It's been done a million ways and all of those ways have certain trade offs. It's just another design challenge and the flipside of your comment is a suggestion that there isn't some person other than me that is up to the challenge. Customers can make their own judgements about looks and size versus (replaceable battery) functionality as they always h…

I'm sure many people want a repairable smartphone and a replaceable battery. Of course, there are many that don't. I don't understand how it make sense to force those people, that don't want a repairable phone and a replaceable battery, to get such a smartphone.
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