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Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

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Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#371

Post by bitwize »

dijit wrote: post #47
scns wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Let a 1000 flowers bloom. There is an essay about it. To lazy to google it. Maybe some fellow has it bookmarked.

Let a thousand flowers bloom is a common misquotation of Chairman Mao Zedong's "Let a hundred flowers blossom". That slogan was used in the summer of 1957 when the Chinese intelligentsia were invited to criticise the political system then obtaining in Communist China. The full quotation, taken from a speech of Mao's in Peking in February 1957, is: "Letting a hundred flowers blossom and a hundred schools of thought co…

This is the source of my aphorism "Every Hundred Flowers Campaign is immediately followed by an Anti-Rightist Campaign". Meaning that if your employer is effusively soliciting criticism or "feedback", they probably just want to identify and punish potential troublemakers.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#372

Post by syntheweave »

globular-toast wrote: post #307
fermigier wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I met Stallman for the first time in ~1993-1995, in Paris. He was talking about the threat of copyright on user interfaces (the infamous "thrash bin" lawsuit) and (but less so) on software patents, speaking in the name of the League for Programming Freedom[1] (LPF) that he was leading at the time. So this was a talk explicitly about programming freedom (and against the risk posed by excessive IP regulations), NOT abo…

> Besides his anger management issues, I think that he made a major mistake in focussing on free software as a goal in itself, and not on programming freedom, which could have rallied many more supporters. Programming freedom might have been easier, but I think free software is a more laudable goal. Programmers possess exceptional skills and it's mostly our choice to use and produce free software, or not. One of Stal…

Free software moves the goalposts of freedom towards "sufficiently clued in user can operate and maintain free software", not "everyone of any skillset has a viable path to control their program". Programming freedom is the harder goal. Anyone can dump source code and say "yeah it's GPL now."

That's how it worked out that so much of the early stuff was, in respects small and large, "software for free, documentation for sale". There's no mandate for usability or conceptual simplicity. And we've only gotten better in the sense of having more developers interested in that stuff.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#373

Post by ralmidani »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #329
lloeki wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cue node.js - io.js and gcc - egcs

Or the short lived "@ lang", a fork of typescript or javascript (I believe) that added annotations because the Angular developers really wanted annotations. I can't even find any information about it anymore, maybe my google skills are failing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AtScript

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#374

Post by yawpitch »

solarkraft wrote: post #147
weinzierl wrote: post #55

I disagree with the general sentiment in this thread that this is a useless immature move. Sure, Crab will almost certainly not replace Rust, but that is not the goal. The ultimate objective is to influence Rust stakeholders' decisions. This is similar to a strike where ultimately your goal is not to destroy the company or to quit and leave, but to achieve better conditions. In both cases it sometimes works and somet…

It's the threat of people abandoning the current leadership. It has to be credible to make a change.

Too bad it isn’t credible.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#375

Post by smt88 »

Dalewyn wrote: post #30
y7 wrote: post #6

The main website has an explanation for the reasons behind this: https://crablang.org/ More context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35583089

[flagged]

Human rights are not political unless you're trying to reduce them. Mozilla justifiably did not want to work with someone who opposes certain human rights (including those of other employees), and that shouldn't be controversial or political.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#376

Post by dijit »

nindalf wrote: post #369
starkparker wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/orgs/crablang/projects/4?pane=issue&itemI... > crab #51 > create experimental branch > opened last week > just need to create the experimental branch > it will start from the current state of our master branch, which is currently synced with upstream project but afterwards will not receive updates unless they can be incorporated without too many conflicts.

> This item hasn't been started Open for a week. What's the matter, they're figuring out how to create a git branch? It's `git branch experimental && git push`, and running that would have been quicker than creating this ticket. I wish everyone who read this thread yesterday could have also seen this - a shining example of the capabilities of the clout chasers involved in this project. They've delivered on their prom…

I think making a git branch which has auto-merging (but only if not conflicting with the upstream) is more time consuming than just making a branch at the current state.

More likely this involves some kind of release engineering; anyone who has worked on large projects will tell you that it's not an effort to take lightly.

Personally I feel like this fork is not really serious, but the issue might be that it either becomes serious or Rust's leadership will not change course.

So, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and quietly hope that I will never need to use crablang.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#377

Post by topspin »

coffeeblack wrote: post #31

Interesting, how many negative comments this gets. People seem to love monoculture run by committees. This is exactly what OSS is all about. Take a code base and develop it into different directions. Both code and organization. And "natural selection" will have some forks die and others strife.

Agreed. I have no respect for the concern trolling about whatever hypothetical damage this supposedly does. If the Rust 'community' is so fragile that this toy fork is an actual problem then there is something fundamentally broken about Rust and its community.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#378

Post by yawpitch »

Dalewyn wrote: post #221
tutuca wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty political statement Dale.

Right now it's being armed, eventually it will be thinking and stating wrongspeak. Seen this song and dance play out so many times my notebook is rusty from age.

Sounds like your notebook is also really, really crabby.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#379

Post by goodpoint »

tristramb wrote: post #210
goodpoint wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with the GPL. For more than two decades Stallman has been described as a terrible public speaker by most people who met him in person. He has many strange quirks and can be very brash. He himself admits being very tone deaf.

I think it probably took an awkward misfit to create the GNU propject and the GPL in the first place. I am reminded of "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." (Maxims for Revolutionists by George Bernard Shaw)

No, GPL is the product of the existing hacker culture. Thousands of people were involved in the early FOSS movement.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#380

Post by jb3689 »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #359
weinzierl wrote: post #55

I disagree with the general sentiment in this thread that this is a useless immature move. Sure, Crab will almost certainly not replace Rust, but that is not the goal. The ultimate objective is to influence Rust stakeholders' decisions. This is similar to a strike where ultimately your goal is not to destroy the company or to quit and leave, but to achieve better conditions. In both cases it sometimes works and somet…

> Sure, Crab will almost certainly not replace Rust, but that is not the goal. I see it as: there's a finite amount of people who choose to dedicate their unpaid free time contributing to making Rust better (working on fixing bugs, new features, etc.) This seems like fragmentation which basically will slow down progress. Now, obviously the people who choose to dedicate their free time to open source software are enti…

Not to downplay any of your points, but as a counterpoint, I'm not sure this was true for Vim/Neovim. Perhaps I'm only looking at short-term gains though and not long-term fragmentation
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