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Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

economist.com

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Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's electric bikes in China that are more like a Vespa than anything. Commuting this way was pretty great when I owned one. The range is perfect for urban commuters, charging it at night is basically negligible in your power bill, it slips right past the cars so there's no such thing as traffic (whatever cars pass you, you pass them right back by the next red light), likewise parking is a non-issue as it takes a…

This is all true…and also American drivers are legitimately aggressive toward these kind of vehicles. They have a terrible reputation, primarily because they get used a lot by people who can’t afford a car. I wish it were different, but driving a moped/Vespa on American roads is a pretty big risk.

So American drivers are aggressive towards those they think to be poorer than them?

Why do you think that is? (genuinely curious)

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#372
post #361
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting thing is Japanese companies generally manufacture cars they sell in America entirely in America, while “American” car companies manufacture their huge polluting machines in Mexico and maybe add one final part in the US so they can claim some work is done in the US. Japanese cars in the US aren’t imported while US cars are.

What are you talking about? The vast majority of japanese brand cars are manufacturered in Japan and imported in the US.

I don’t know either way but DDG led me here [1]

> The largest automobile manufacturing facility in the world for Toyota, Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky, Inc. (TMMK) is able to produce 550,000 vehicles and more than 600,000 engines per year. Two years after breaking ground in Georgetown, Kentucky,

> Where are the majority of Toyotas produced?

> The majority of Toyota vehicles you see on the road are made in your own country.

This does read like marketing material from Toyota itself so I don’t know if it’s the most trustworthy. So I look at [2]. Toyota makes 8.1M cars globally.

> the assembly of Toyota vehicles in North America came to around 1.75 million units.

So nearly 20% of worldwide production is assembled in the US. 2.3M cars are sold in the US [3]. So doesn’t seem unreasonable to say that the vast majority of Toyota cars are assembled in the US. It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s more broadly true for other Japanese manufacturers.

Do you have a better explanation of your viewpoint?

[1] https://gearshifters.org/toyota/where-does-toyota-manufactur...

[2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/267272/worldwide-vehicle...

[3] https://www.best-selling-cars.com/brands/2021-full-year-glob...

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota can't import trucks with such a small footprint. That would screw up their fuel efficiency metric. That could lead to fines from the US government. That is the primary issue here that prevents the sale of small trucks in the US. With the current regulations, it makes the most sense to sell trucks with the longest wheelbase and largest width.

Can you explain this a little more (I dont live in the US and a preliminary search is failing me). It sounds as though the 'regulations' are preventing US consumers from having a choice in trucks, which.. kinda makes no sense from what I've seen in the wide range of oversized trucks in the US.

Larger vehicles have less stringent emissions regulations.

Or something along those lines.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#374
post #361
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting thing is Japanese companies generally manufacture cars they sell in America entirely in America, while “American” car companies manufacture their huge polluting machines in Mexico and maybe add one final part in the US so they can claim some work is done in the US. Japanese cars in the US aren’t imported while US cars are.

What are you talking about? The vast majority of japanese brand cars are manufacturered in Japan and imported in the US.

Toyota Tundras are manufactured in San Antonio. A few miles away from Shibuya crossing.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#375
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all true…and also American drivers are legitimately aggressive toward these kind of vehicles. They have a terrible reputation, primarily because they get used a lot by people who can’t afford a car. I wish it were different, but driving a moped/Vespa on American roads is a pretty big risk.

So American drivers are aggressive towards those they think to be poorer than them? Why do you think that is? (genuinely curious)

http://www.temporarilyembarrassedmillionaires.org/

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The /r/fuckcars folks are being a little dishonest here. As another commenter mentioned, this is like asking a vegan for steak recommendations at a restaurant. Subaru Sambar (kei truck) towing capacity: 1,300 lbs Ford F-150 towing capacity: 5,000 to 11,300 lbs Ford F-250 Shelby edition towing capacity: 24,200 pounds And that's just one additional dimension where these vehicles significantly differ. These vehicles are…

> The /r/fuckcars folks are being a little dishonest here. As another commenter mentioned, this is like asking a vegan for steak recommendations at a restaurant. The subreddit is specifically named 'fuck cars'. How exactly are they being dishonest ? This is more like r/vegan showing how a vegan meal is better than a steak meal along some dimension, say, environmental impact. > I live in an urban area close enough to…

> How exactly are they being dishonest?

They're comparing on a single dimension and laughing at F-150 owners.

> This is more like r/vegan showing how a vegan meal is better than a steak meal along some dimension, say, environmental impact.

Not when evaluating a purchasing decision, overall utility, or customer demographics and needs. I'm showing that morally opposed parties inject themselves and their biases orthogonally.

> In fact I would say that you are the one being somewhat dishonest by (implicitly) claiming both the benefits of being able to use it as a utilitarian workhorse, and in an urban area.

Have you ever been to a city that's half an hour to the woods? Or perhaps somewhere it's typical to find people owning acres of their own land right next to a major metropolitan? Not everything is SF or NYC.

If you want to tax an externality, do so. Many state gas taxes tax vehicle weight via the proxy of gas mileage. Right now it's the heavy EVs doing the damage that are slipping through the taxation cracks.

> they should require being licensed as a commercial driver

Okay, now we're getting into yucking other people's yums.

Some people own boats and full hog smokers, like getting muddy on the weekends and going fishing. There are millions of these folks in America.

If you want to regulate what you perceive as a negative externality, we should do it evenly against everything. Tax and regulate broadly and fairly.

Consider sex. It spreads disease and causes all sorts of relationship drama. Kids can be a nightmare. Think about all the lost productivity! Who's paying for that? (I'm joking, of course!)

In the scheme of things, these vehicles are much more good than bad. They sell like crazy, satisfy their consumers, get a lot of productive work done, and on the weekends are spent as leisure devices - getting folks muddy and smelly with beers and fish and sun. A good diversion for hard workers.

> potentially be banned from being operated on city roads due to the danger they pose to smaller vehicles and pedestrians

You can vote for that in your own district, and maybe that's correct, but other places and populations will feel differently about how they live their own lives.

> if you are driving a huge farm tractor, you cannot also bring said tractor into the city center. Not all heavy machinery needs to be allowed everywhere.

On the spectrum of farm tractor to kei car, the F-150 is tightly clustered in the middle with the rest of the "street legal" vehicles.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some smaller options these days. The Honda Ridgeline has led the way here as a very livable, smaller (although not small) truck. The Ford Maverick is even smaller. It is a bit more barebones but it might work for you.

The problem with the Maverick (as others have mentioned) is that they squander valuable bed space by adding a cab to the design. To me, a pickup truck is a pretty utilitarian thing. I don't need a cab. I have other vehicles if I need to take passengers. I remember pricing out a pickup a few years ago, and it was hard to find one that wasn't already configured with a cab. I guess the market demand is larger for people…

>I guess the market demand is larger for people who have kids but still want a pickup for whatever reason.

Or people who buy trucks for their business. It's much easier to put a whole crew into one-two vehicles instead of driving each man in his own truck especially if you do residential work, where worksites might not have ample parking or any parking for that matter.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, what the hell happened? And I miss my manual (1980's?) Chevy Luv.

From what I understand, the two main drivers are: - safety standards (eg crumple zones) - emissions and efficiency regulations that vary with the footprint of the vehicle. Vehicles with larger footprint (= width x length) are allowed to have lower fuel economy numbers, which perversely means that one solution to a truck having poor fuel economy is to make it… bigger.

I’d also add that they became a lifestyle accessory. Once SUVs started getting identified with soccer moms, the size and macho styling of pickups started going up along with the price. That makes a lot of sense financially for the manufacturer since a business user is going to be a lot more price sensitive, especially for stuff which isn’t durable, and there are a ton of people who don’t really need one but like the image so moving in that direction can grow your market significantly as long as you don’t drive away your original audience.

Re: Rural Americans are importing tiny Japanese pickup trucks

#380
post #323
post #29

The 25-year import rule here, which bans Americans from importing vehicles from other countries unless they're 25+ years old, is just awful for those of us who would be interested in driving small, efficient foreign cars. It would be great to live completely car-free, but absent major changes to how we plan our cities, it's just a sad reality that cars are a necessary ingredient to life in the vast majority of Americ…

What counts as "importing a car", anyway? What's stopping someone from e.g. having the car disassembled, imported as parts, and reassembled?

This is called the "kit car" loophole, and some people have successfully used it (e.g. the Nissan Skyline R34 GT-R in The Fast & the Furious movie was brought over like this)
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