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Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

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Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#371

Post by Fauntleroy »

haswell wrote: post #351
xwdv wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The point isn’t that homeless kill people, it’s that homeless and drug addicts create environments where people are more likely to be killed, by anyone.

Setting aside for a moment that this incident did not involve homeless people, we need to bring systems thinking to this problem, and ask what created the environment of homelessness to begin with. Focusing only on the symptom here is similar to focusing on error logs and system crashes as if they are self contained phenomena and lamenting the impact they have on operations teams. These issues are signs of upstream p…

Then we'd better start thinking of quick fixes instead of dreaming up ways to refactor all of society to fix the downstream issue.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#372

Post by chelical »

dragonwriter wrote: post #334
8ytecoder wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a violent town (high murder rate - even blatant). The difference between that and SF is that you don’t personally experience that violence in my home town. It’s really quite rare it affects someone you know. It’s even rarer for it to be direct. SF is different. Within my first year there i had already seen someone shot in front my building (i didn’t witness it but the aftermath). An asian friend was slap…

> I grew up in a violent town (high murder rate - even blatant). The difference between that and SF is that you don’t personally experience that violence in my home town. It’s really quite rare it affects someone you know. If it has a high murder rate, that obviously is not true for all values of “you”.

It's true for an overwhelming percentage of people even in the most violent cities since most violent crime is confined to a small subset of the city.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#373

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #222

[flagged]

Politicization is a ratchet. The conversation has already been politicized, I don't think there's any avoiding it.

Second, the discussion for all intents and purposes isn't even about Bob Lee, it's about crime in SF. That's why even when it turns out that Bob Lee wasn't killed by a homeless drug addict, the conversation is still about the homeless, drug addicts, petty crime, etc. I think it's illustrative of how wrong it is to use his death this way, even if he had actually been murdered by a vagrant, it would still be wrong.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#374

Post by explaininjs »

jefftk wrote: post #240
Aeolun wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For comparison, Japan has 0.3, the UK has 1.1 and France has 1.3. I know they’re in the linked table, just wanted to mention that even the best city in the US is still relatively bad.

> even the best city in the US is still relatively bad Your parent didn't mention the "best city in the US" though? Per the linked table it seems to be Irvine CA at 0.72 per 100k, which would be below average in the UK or France.

What an incredibly effective way of showcasing murder rate isn't everything - you couldn't pay me to live in Irvine.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#375

Post by handoflixue »

cemerick wrote: post #182
idopmstuff wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with saying that SF has relatively low violent crime is that it ignores the constant, extremely aggressive verbal assault that people are just accustomed to. In the years I lived there, I had people scream at me that they were going to kill/stab/etc. me at least a couple of dozen times (I would describe this as violent crime). Of course, if you call SFPD, they'll just tell you it's not an issue and ignore…

You're right, "violent crime" is a term of art that involves the commission of a…crime. "Verbal assault" is not assault. I guess if you don't like the vibes in a place, you can go somewhere else, but trying to use such things to influence how people talk about or perceive actual , no, for real crime is intellectual malpractice.

Threatening to assault someone is, in fact, a real crime. You cannot, legally, go around "screaming that you're going to kill/stab/etc." people. Looks like Penal Code 422, if you need a concrete reference for California specifically

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#376

Post by BenSahar »

jmull wrote: post #359
Ar-Curunir wrote: post #222

[flagged]

> I wonder if all the many commenters who had preemptively blamed homeless or poor people for this would change their mind in the light of this, You should understand that San Fransisco has serious problems with homelessness and crime. While some people may have been mistaken about the root cause in this particular case, that doesn't invalidate their very real concerns. > all tech executives to be forcibly housed in…

>You should understand that San Fransisco has serious problems with homelessness and crime. While some people may have been mistaken about the root cause in this particular case, that doesn't invalidate their very real concerns.

I don't doubt they have concerns. I doubt their ability to reason.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#378

Post by rchaud »

jjulius wrote: post #52
cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

It was really surreal, reading through that thread and watching everyone assume they knew exactly what happened when there had literally been no public information given out about the suspect.

not surprising on a message board where IQ levels end up being a common topic of discussion.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#379

Post by cpufry »

cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

yep, went right to poverty and crime panic

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#380

Post by hindsightbias »

cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

Exhibit A in how irrational a “rationalist” community is.
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