Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft fixes 5-year-old Defender bug, reducing Firefox-related CPU use by 75%

bugzilla.mozilla.org

371–380 of 443 posts

Re: Microsoft fixes 5-year-old Defender bug, reducing Firefox-related CPU use by 75%

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched to linux. I like it and haven't really had any issues to speak of. Not with sound, video, wifi or any of the other things people complain about. My fan went, but likely it was a pet fur issue, and easy to fix... I'm not an admin. I know how to use the command line, and how to use it as a work machine. Really my experience over the past 3 years, its been as trouble free as my Mac used to be. It really is th…

Can you hybernate your system without issues?

Windows can't be hibernated without issue. My wife had issues the past week already on Windows. She wants me to put Ubuntu back on the machine.

Re: Microsoft fixes 5-year-old Defender bug, reducing Firefox-related CPU use by 75%

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love calculations like this and hope they are part of every engineer’s line of thinking. I originally came across this thinking in Andy Hertzfeld’s book - https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Saving_Lives.txt Performance is time, energy, heat. It’s one of the easiest features to get and there are lots of tools, research, and philosophies to help get it. Memory and storage are similar. For anyone working on l…

Don't forget the waste caused by people throwing away devices that are "too slow", and the resources required to build new computers/phones. Somewhere I saw a rough figure about phones. Something like: if everyone was able to keep their phone one year longer, it would be the equivalent of 600,000 cars off the road or something. (Just looked it up - source is possibly the founder of iFixit). But you know, development…

Yep. Most things most users do on our computers could be done just fine on a computer from 10 years ago. I think we're on a performance treadmill like this:

- Developers get new, fast devices (yay). We make our software just fast enough to run smoothly (enough) on our own devices. Then we ship it.

- Users' computers are slower than the developers' computers. Users experience is bad because the software is slow.

- Users buy new computers too. Money is poured into R&D for even faster computers.

- Hardware companies release faster hardware

- Developers buy new, fast computers

And the cycle continues.

For general purpose computing, there's not really any meaningful difference between my computer today and my computer 15 years ago. But I can't use that old computer, because modern programs don't work well on it any more. I can't imagine how slow modern Discord or Microsoft Teams would run on my old 2012 macbook air - even though that machine is orders of magnitude faster than the computer I was using to chat on IRC in the late 90s.

I'm low key convinced that if computers and phones stopped getting faster tomorrow, the software industry would grumble but get on with things and adapt. Users wouldn't really notice anything change, except we'd all be richer because we would no longer need to buy new computers every few years.

There's a few notable exceptions of course: modern AI, video production & animation, and massive cloud services (like Google and Netflix) who actually optimize their code. I'm on the fence about compilers - do LLVM & rustc really need to be that slow? Netflix might never make it to 8k video (boo hoo). And ray traced video games might not happen. But the average consumer would probably be delighted. And the savings to the environment would be insane.

Re: Microsoft fixes 5-year-old Defender bug, reducing Firefox-related CPU use by 75%

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love calculations like this and hope they are part of every engineer’s line of thinking. I originally came across this thinking in Andy Hertzfeld’s book - https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Saving_Lives.txt Performance is time, energy, heat. It’s one of the easiest features to get and there are lots of tools, research, and philosophies to help get it. Memory and storage are similar. For anyone working on l…

It can be a bit dangerous (especially to your employer) to continue that line of thinking, though. How many pieces of software do we collectively work on which would make the world a better place if they didn't exist at all ?

If your job and your conscience disagree, quit your job. You only get one life and we have so many options as engineers.

Why make the world worse for ourselves and our children when you have other options?

Re: Microsoft fixes 5-year-old Defender bug, reducing Firefox-related CPU use by 75%

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you sure you want to invoke this logic? Because following it through imagine the energy savings if Firefox users switched to Chrome. Ironically, Mac users routinely complain about how power-hungry Chrome is on the Mac. Safari is significantly more efficient.

Is that because of the quality of Chrome or because Safari is a "blessed" application and probably gets to do things other applications do not? Entirely serious question. Apple is known to severely privilege their own applications over competitors.

If I had to guess, it's that Apple refuses to implement very CPU-heavy JS features they don't think add much value in Safari.

I recall some feature I was using that ran in an inferior way to save power on Safari, so much so that I had to kill that feature and use a different API

Re: Microsoft fixes 5-year-old Defender bug, reducing Firefox-related CPU use by 75%

#377

Quick napkin math of the wasted power : Firefox has ~300e6 users, let's assume the bug wasted 5 extra watts 4 hours a day. That's 250 megawatts saved, the equivalent of an average coal power plant. Because some Microsoft engineer missed a bug.

Only works if this was a constant drain for everyone, though? If it only saves 100 watts once a month, from a quarter of users, things change. A lot.

Re: Microsoft fixes 5-year-old Defender bug, reducing Firefox-related CPU use by 75%

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, it only took 20 years (!!) to stop Ctrl+Q from quitting Firefox on Linux. :) IIRC, a couple of patches did get submitted, but never accepted for unknown reasons.

Isn't Ctrl-Q quitting the program normal and expected behavior? For example, right now on Firefox 111, I can see in the File menu that the "Quit" option has the keyboard shortcut Ctrl-Q. I'm fairly sure it works.

It is a very common binding.

Re: Microsoft fixes 5-year-old Defender bug, reducing Firefox-related CPU use by 75%

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "average color" (or whatever it is) could have been pre-computed server-side rather than tiring out the poor innocent client CPUs.

Couldn't this be done cheaply on the GPU?

The browser isn’t the ideal place to do things “on the GPU” unless the site is designed around it.
Post reply on HN