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Simply explained: How does GPT work?

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Re: Simply explained: How does GPT work?

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the differentiating factor(s) for true AI/intelligence in your opinion?

any sufficiently advanced technology is AI...

Perhaps if you're a marketer anything can be defined loosely.

Re: Simply explained: How does GPT work?

#372
post #135

I’d be interested in hearing from anyone who takes the Chinese Room scenario seriously, or at least can see how it applies to any of this. I cannot see that it matters if a computer understands something. If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, and your only need is for it to quack and walk like a duck, then it doesn’t matter if it’s actually a duck or not for all intents and purposes. It only matters if you…

In my understanding of the Chinese Room example, the resolution to the argument is that the *human* may not understand Chinese, but the *system as a whole* can be said to understand it. With this in mind, I think asking whether ChatGPT *in and of itself* is "conscious" or has "agency" is sort of like asking if the speech center of a particular human's brain is "conscious" or has "agency": it's not really a question t…

What if the human learns all the rules? Then the system as a whole is the human.

Re: Simply explained: How does GPT work?

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A CPU "runs". A disk "seeks". An OS stores data in "memory". Re-purposing terms to describe new concepts is routine in the evolution of language, and (non-human, non-biological) "thought" is a perfectly apt way to describe what we can observe in the output of massive LLMs like GPT.

A CPU "runs" but nobody debates whether a CPU has legs and leaps around. A OS stores "memories" but nobody argues whether the OS fondly recalls the day their son was born. When people are debating how the LLM works and you call what the LLM does "thought" it's perfectly reasonable to conclude you believe the human brain works essentially the same as an LLM. I just asked ChatGPT 4.0 and here's my question and the resp…

I don’t think it’s conscious. Though at some point in the future, it will likely be hard to say that with total certainty.

Perhaps you’re right that the term thought has too much baggage. I’m just saying that if you look at it at naively, it’s engaging in forms of abstractions, reasoning, world modeling, invention, and so on that seem a lot like “thought”. If a human told you they were doing those things, you’d say they were thinking, right?

I agree it’s not thought in exactly the way that we are used to using the word, but I think it can be classified as a type of thought.

Re: Simply explained: How does GPT work?

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> has burdened me with pseudo-philosophical questions about the nature of cognition that I am not well equipped to articulate, and make me wish I'd studied more neuroscience, philosophy, and comp sci earlier in life Welcome to the club. There pretty much are no answers, just theories primarily played out as thought experiments. Its on of those areas where you can pick out who knows less (or is being disingenuous) by…

It's interesting to me how many commenters on HN are absolutely convinced that GPT4 is incapable of thought or understanding or reasoning, it's "just" predicting the next word. And then they'll insist that it'll never be able to do things that it's already capable of doing... Interestingly, more than one of these folks have turned out to be religious. I wonder if increasingly intelligent AI systems will be challengin…

> because it calls into question our place at the pinnacle of God's creation, or it casts doubt upon the existence of a soul

I think this is a very simplistic view, that possibly suggests you haven't talked to many religious people.

I've never known a religious person who thought "thought" was the same as "soul", or that God is neccesarily a requirement for reasoning. Or that any of this is thought about much, considering it's so new.

Although, I suppose that if someone did say that God was a requirement for reasoning, a "logical within that context" perspective might be AI being some vicarious creation, since it wouldn't have been possible without us being able to reason.

I subscribe to the belief that reasoning is an eventual emergent law of nature/information. But, even that could, and does, fit into many "religious" perspectives perfectly well.

Re: Simply explained: How does GPT work?

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the differentiating factor(s) for true AI/intelligence in your opinion?

Intent.

I think three pieces are missing for intelligence. In the order that they'll probably be implemented:

attention, intent, free running continuous input/feedback (aka, consciousness).

Re: Simply explained: How does GPT work?

#376
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't! Someone else did it to me. I was trying desperately not to. (edit: This is the kind of stuff I think my friends are watching and being informed by [0] as it was what they are posting in our common areas.) [0]: https://youtu.be/ro130m-f_yk

Why does it upset you if they disagree with you on this?

It's not that they disagree with me, as there were many things we agreed on. I have read over it and it seems that they don't respect what I believe so much that their example of how they felt was this angry shouting man. But again, I was not the person who ended the friendship.

In short, I'm upset that a person I thought was a friend disrespected my opinion about something so much, she stopped being my friend.

Re: Simply explained: How does GPT work?

#377
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as non-regular programming though, that's my point. All programs that run on the computer have the same "power" in terms of what they can do and what can be computed using them. A program that implements a neural net is not inherently any different than a silly python script. One just does a lot more stuff and is much more interesting.

Sure, if you drill down, everything is just a Turing machine. And then we can drill down even further where everything is just physics with atoms, quantum mechanics, etc. So you're not different from a computer. Both are just physics. But that's not a useful world view in my opinion. I think "regular" and "non-regular" programming is a useful distinction. In regular programming, I have to write explicit implementatio…

>So you're not different from a computer. Both are just physics.

Well I do actually believe this! To me it's the only logical thing. The laws of physics apply equally to a brain and a computer, one is just a lot more fancy than the other one.

>Don't you see the big difference between "I have to code the algorithms" and "the computer does it for me"?

I do see the difference and understand what you are getting at. I agree that it's useful to distinguish them in general.

It's also useful to realize that it is just a regular program at the end of the day too, just a really complicated one that does some neat stuff. Believing that AI is "magic" is pretty dangerous I think.

Re: Simply explained: How does GPT work?

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But it wasn't designed. It's not a computer program, where one can make confident predictions about its limitations based on the source code. It definitely is exactly that. It's not any more special than any other program that you can write. I am not totally sure that what you describe could ever exist at all. What makes this program "magic" compared to any other program exactly? There is no physical difference betw…

No, machine learning models are not programs and they are not compiled from source code. They are the output of non-deterministic matrix multiplication operations which take encoded data as the input. They can then be used as a black box by an actual program to calculate useful outputs. The program which takes your text and runs a final calculation on it against the machine learning model to get an output is a progra…

So I reread here and I think I misunderstood what you meant.

I meant that the process of generating the models, and otherwise interacting with them are regular programs. The model itself is I guess more like a database or something, but it too is just regular data.

The original thing I was replying to was claiming that the process in general was "not a program", as if there was some magic thing going on that made the model different from output of other programs, or the training was somehow magical. (that is how I read it at least)

Re: Simply explained: How does GPT work?

#379
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, machine learning models are not programs and they are not compiled from source code. They are the output of non-deterministic matrix multiplication operations which take encoded data as the input. They can then be used as a black box by an actual program to calculate useful outputs. The program which takes your text and runs a final calculation on it against the machine learning model to get an output is a progra…

> "They are the output of non-deterministic matrix multiplication operations" Just a nit-pick: Aren't neural networks and LLMs perfectly deterministic? I think you can reproduce GPT-4 perfectly if you have access to the same source code, training data, and the seeds for the random number generators that they used? As a side note, I think it'd be theoretically possible to do this on a small 8-bit microcontroller given…

Multi-core math on GPU and CPU is non-deterministic for performance and scheduling reasons.

The errors are small rounding errors that maybe don't have any serious implications right now. But the larger models get and the more operations and cores it takes to train them the more the rounding errors creep up.

Re: Simply explained: How does GPT work?

#380
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you drill down, everything is just a Turing machine. And then we can drill down even further where everything is just physics with atoms, quantum mechanics, etc. So you're not different from a computer. Both are just physics. But that's not a useful world view in my opinion. I think "regular" and "non-regular" programming is a useful distinction. In regular programming, I have to write explicit implementatio…

>So you're not different from a computer. Both are just physics. Well I do actually believe this! To me it's the only logical thing. The laws of physics apply equally to a brain and a computer, one is just a lot more fancy than the other one. >Don't you see the big difference between "I have to code the algorithms" and "the computer does it for me"? I do see the difference and understand what you are getting at. I ag…

> Well I do actually believe this! To me it's the only logical thing. The laws of physics apply equally to a brain and a computer, one is just a lot more fancy than the other one.

I agree 100% with this statement taken in isolation. I don't believe there's more to a human brain than physics.

There is an interesting theory about the brain using quantum mechanics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind), but that still puts it firmly in the realm of physics even it is true.

My point about "it's all just atoms" was about the fact that we need mental models to discuss things. The models will never be perfectly accurate. Just like software frameworks, they're leaky abstractions. Sure, some models are just plain wrong and should be discarded, but in general we can't reason without them.

And it looks like you agree with that (?):

> I do see the difference and understand what you are getting at. I agree that it's useful to distinguish them in general.

Thanks!

So, on to the core of the discussion:

> It's also useful to realize that it is just a regular program at the end of the day too, just a really complicated one that does some neat stuff.

Sure. If you look at GPT-4 as a whole, it's just a regular program that executes like any other program. It has instructions that use internal data to process inputs from the user and responds with an output to the user.

Nothing new here. Any Turing machine can do this, given enough time and memory. Heck, I saw a video of an 8-bit AVR boot Linux using a simple ARM instruction simulator. Only took 3.5 hours to get the login prompt :)

> Believing that AI is "magic" is pretty dangerous I think.

Not sure what you mean exactly with the "magic" part? Is this a point about something other people think that is inaccurate? Or did I write something that you don't agree with?

To restate my position: I currently believe the neural networks inside the LLMs used to be "stochastic parrots", but that we saw a step-change in performance 1-2 years ago.

We reached a new level of model size (>100B parameters), training data (trillions of tokens), and training time (>1M GPU hours). Somehow the backpropagation training of the neural networks changed the network parameters so that algorithmic processing capabilities emerged.

This isn't fundamentally different from neural networks evolving algorithms to perform OCR, FFTs, balancing a inverted pendulum, playing Go, etc.

Here, the LLMs evolved language processing algorithms. Not only that, they started evolving algorithms for reasoning, abstraction, logic, planning, and problem-solving. Together with that they also formed models about the world to help with the reasoning.

This was driven by the training which seeks to optimize the accuracy of the next word prediction. Lookup tables only get you so far here. At some point you need to understand the context to accurately predict the next word.

For example, in French and German, there are multiple variants of the word "it". To translate the English phrases: "The box wouldn't fit in the suitcase because it was too large" and "The box wouldn't fit in the suitcase because it was too small", you need to understand if "it" refers to the box or the suitcase.

There are 10^80 atoms in the universe. Even if you assume a tiny vocabulary of 100 words, you get more than 10^80 possible combinations after stringing 40 words together. And even if you have unlimited storage, there's not 10^80 tokens to train with. And even with unlimited storage and examples, we don't have unlimited CPU cycles for the training.

So it's clear to me that a "stochastic parrot" (or Chinese room) will be very simplistic even in 1000 years, no matter how much computers progress in that time. And therefore, the latest LLMs must have evolved algorithms for reasoning, abstraction, logic, planning, and problem-solving.

I don't know if that is what you mean by "magic"?

To me, that's not magic. It's just an algorithm (neural network training) creating algorithms and data structures. Impressive as heck for sure, but not magic. I could be wrong, and am more than happy to consider alternatives if you have any?

We have recent examples of similar emergent behavior from big neural networks where they evolve algorithms far beyond what a human programmer can create. For example, AlphaGo which beat the human Go champion. The AlphaGo programmers could never beat him, but they managed to evolve a program that were "smarter" than them (no, Go-playing is not general intelligence).

Now, I could be wrong about the level of intelligence with the latest LLMs like GPT-4. Maybe they're a lot dumber than they appear. But in that case I'm in good company. From what I can tell, the major AI researchers agree with me in that GPT-4 possesses some form of intelligence. It's not a stochastic parrot.

And to end with something I agree with: You wrote that whatever happens because of LLMs in the near future, it's because of human actions. I agree. The LLMs have no agency in themselves. It's humans that use and misuse them.

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