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Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

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Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#371

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

post_below wrote: post #258
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that you had to go into the BIOS to do it, if turning it off was supported at all.

Maybe you're referring to whether or not the core ability to wake from sleep can be disabled? I've never tried to do that, so I can't say. In my experience you can reliably stop windows from waking in unwanted ways. I usually disable everything except input devices (keyboard, mouse).

No that's not it. The issue is actually pretty involved, there is a LTT video on it, this is the bit I'm remembering: https://youtu.be/OHKKcd3sx2c?t=475

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#372

Post by rezonant »

dang wrote: post #368
rezonant wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thompson's talk is very interesting, but it's also interesting that Thompson has decided to use a UNIX clone for his daily compute over macOS. The original submission included the timestamp to concisely link to the comment. It might be that autocanonicalizing YouTube submissions to remove the timestamp is the actual issue, perhaps that could be reconsidered.

The one is a talk going deeply into a cool technical project and the other is a cherry-picked bit of celebrity gossip—admittedly a fun fact, but not interesting (at least not intellectually interesting) in the same degree. Although we didn't write code to do it on purpose, I think removing timestamps from videos (and similar things, like removing HTML anchors) generally does more good than harm, because people tend t…

Well that's certainly your call but it's not gossip when it's first party at the very least. It's a statement by a luminary in the industry. As for timestamps, I can understand the intent with stripping them, but it might be an outsized measure when there are definitely other cases where including timestamps can help with context. Perhaps most usefully, allowing timestamps ensures the submitted title (which we as readers are voting on) matches the actual content you get when you visit the URL, so that the topic of comments can remain aligned with the submission itself.

Ideally, I think this talk should have been two submissions, one for the OS commentary (which HN mods can choose to moderate or not) and one for the actual talk.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#373

Post by [deleted] »

kristopolous wrote: post #349
agent281 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! I have to say I was disappointed by the question at 59:23. They seemed to expect a retrospective on Ken’s career or some grand philosophical statement on software or open source. To be honest, I was pretty surprised by the direction of the talk myself, but I ultimately enjoyed it. You see, Ken decided to talk about his 75 year project: his music collection. He talked about audio formats, collecting music from…

It's a technically oriented, open source, Linux conference and he's talking about basically his home stereo. Well ok, I guess he can do whatever he wants. There's expectations from the context though. That speech was the first time I understood how people can become too famous for their own good. I saw him the day before (and I've got the photos to prove it) and he made a bunch of factual mistakes. Nobody cared enoug…

[deleted]

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#374

Post by chupasaurus »

dagmx wrote: post #209
fanatic2pope wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is that what holds Linux back is NVidia. Their proprietary drivers work great when you first install them, but inevitably break on update bringing you to a text mode emergency command line. When I made the switch to Linux in 2018 I made the conscious decision to avoid Nvidia hardware and it has worked out really well.

NVidia have moved most of the driver stack on to device local firmware instead. The parts of their driver that interface with the GPU are now largely open source as a result. Of course this only applies to more recent GPUs so doesn’t invalidate your comment

Only if you think that firmware doesn't "interface with the GPU", 2 biggest parts of their driver are that and profiles for games/apps (which are accessible by design though), and they've open-sourced the loader of firmware recently.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#376

Post by filmgirlcw »

agent281 wrote: post #268
adamgordonbell wrote: post #77

I was at the talk, and it's strange this what people take from it. You should watch the whole thing and see what he built over years. I was a bit disappointed that most of the questions ignored his talk about a very cool jukebox he built and focused on OS drama. He built a jukebox with all hit songs he could find in it 1900-2000 and for prerecorded music, got a player piano and sheet music and midi and integrated the…

Agreed! I have to say I was disappointed by the question at 59:23. They seemed to expect a retrospective on Ken’s career or some grand philosophical statement on software or open source. To be honest, I was pretty surprised by the direction of the talk myself, but I ultimately enjoyed it. You see, Ken decided to talk about his 75 year project: his music collection. He talked about audio formats, collecting music from…

I was there in person and I debated with whether or not I should shout down the guy who basically insulted him for giving what I thought was a great talk. Obviously, I didn’t (because nothing good would come from making a spectacle like that), but it bothered me that he was insulted for presenting what I thought was a really beautiful and humanizing talk.

I met Ken the day before and he told me he was nervous about his talk. I hope he knows that most of us in the audience really loved what he shared.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#377

Post by post_below »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #371
post_below wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you're referring to whether or not the core ability to wake from sleep can be disabled? I've never tried to do that, so I can't say. In my experience you can reliably stop windows from waking in unwanted ways. I usually disable everything except input devices (keyboard, mouse).

No that's not it. The issue is actually pretty involved, there is a LTT video on it, this is the bit I'm remembering: https://youtu.be/OHKKcd3sx2c?t=475

Ah I see... you can disable network waking, also the ability of Windows Update to wake the computer. That, combined with disabling wake in other areas, solves it on various Windows computers I've tried it on.

I guess it's possible that all of them were defaulting to S3 sleep though, I never checked.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#378

Post by agent281 »

filmgirlcw wrote: post #376
agent281 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! I have to say I was disappointed by the question at 59:23. They seemed to expect a retrospective on Ken’s career or some grand philosophical statement on software or open source. To be honest, I was pretty surprised by the direction of the talk myself, but I ultimately enjoyed it. You see, Ken decided to talk about his 75 year project: his music collection. He talked about audio formats, collecting music from…

I was there in person and I debated with whether or not I should shout down the guy who basically insulted him for giving what I thought was a great talk. Obviously, I didn’t (because nothing good would come from making a spectacle like that), but it bothered me that he was insulted for presenting what I thought was a really beautiful and humanizing talk. I met Ken the day before and he told me he was nervous about h…

Yeah, it made me sad because he sort of apologized to the person. Ultimately, Ken doesn't owe anyone anything.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#379

Post by filmgirlcw »

kristopolous wrote: post #349
agent281 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! I have to say I was disappointed by the question at 59:23. They seemed to expect a retrospective on Ken’s career or some grand philosophical statement on software or open source. To be honest, I was pretty surprised by the direction of the talk myself, but I ultimately enjoyed it. You see, Ken decided to talk about his 75 year project: his music collection. He talked about audio formats, collecting music from…

It's a technically oriented, open source, Linux conference and he's talking about basically his home stereo. Well ok, I guess he can do whatever he wants. There's expectations from the context though. That speech was the first time I understood how people can become too famous for their own good. I saw him the day before (and I've got the photos to prove it) and he made a bunch of factual mistakes. Nobody cared enoug…

The man is 80 years old. High status doesn’t give people a pass, respecting what people have contributed and not having the need to “well, actually” every little thing does.

I met him Saturday too and I was struck by how lovely and down to earth he seemed.

Who cares if he isn’t intimately familiar with RPi4 prices and availability? The cyclical and location-based nature in how these things work makes it impossible for anyone not absurdly obsessed to keep track. (I bought 8GB units in 2020, 2021, and 2022 at list price. If I wasn’t trying to get some CM4 units, I wouldn’t even be aware there is an ongoing shortage and I consider myself to be incredibly plugged in)

I found his talk about his home stereo to be far more interesting than a talk about the inner-workings of UNIX that’s he’s undoubtedly given a thousand times before. To each their own.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#380

Post by tkhattra »

lapcat wrote: post #355
dang wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for this! If anyone can suggest a good title for the talk as a whole, we'll change it above. (By 'good' I mean accurate, neutral, and representative of the talk as a whole.) ((The submitted URL was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaandEt_pKw&t=3473s , but our software swapped in the canonical URL, which has no timestamp.)) Edit: I've put a placeholder up there for the time being until we get a better suggestio…

dang, it's far too late to change the submission title when there are already hundreds of comments focused on the old title. The commentary makes no sense now. If anything, there should be a separate submission with the new title.

i submitted it ~4 days ago with the title "Ken Thompson's 75 year project", but the title was evidently too boring to gain any traction :) (like some others have commented, the raspbian os "revelation" was the least interesting part for me too)

it was cool to hear that he's still working on chess endgames, an interest which goes back many decades too [1].

[1] https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/ken-games.html

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