“Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you • Hacker News Board

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#371

Post by cat_plus_plus » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #207

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #195

Ok, but what now? There is no effective treatment or cure for obesity from public health point of view. That is, sufficiently low calorie intake will make you lose weight. But, if your metabolic balance is out of whack, it will also leave you constantly hungry, lethargic, not able to enjoy one of the major life pleasures. To maintain that long term once has to essentially prioritize staying slim over all other life p…

Just like the Hackernews prescription for individual health issues is fasting, the Hackernews prescription for large-scale public health issues is government regulation. Apply liberally. Start implementing Pigovian taxes on sugary foods. Monitor and punish companies that use added sugar in foods that don't need it. Shut down the Coca-Cola Company and PepsiCo.

We could also have private school and private communities that advertise ease of healthy living. But so long as a school run by government, they might as well teach useful things like taking good care of one's health, including school lunch that is a realistic, non-bland example of what one can enjoy eating and at the same time don't become a balloon. Or if we can have vouchers and parents can choose schools that do that, that's great.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#372

Post by Balgair » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

throwawaysleep wrote: post #11

lockhouse wrote: post #3

There’s really no getting around the fact that you need to live an active life of consuming things in moderation to be healthy.

The challenge is what is the closest hack to get around it, as most people, admittedly myself included, are not willing to exercise? Semaglutide seems to be the best bet right now.

Best hacks I've found: Get a young dog, get really into YT cooking shows.

Dog will get you out and moving in any weather. They really don't understand why you're too tired for a walk this evening.

YT cooking shows will show the fun side of cooking and get you to make food at home more. Then you're less likely to put so much oil/butter/sugar/etc into dishes vs. eating out. And you also get a taste for vegetables. You kinda tend to eat healthier in general-ish.

Combine all that with a good sleep routine and you're pointed in the right direction. Takes about 3 months though.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#373

Post by paulmd » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 3:35 PM UTC

psychphysic wrote: post #221

rhaway84773 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are several reasons: 1. Historically being fat was considered a sign of good health. Of course, this was during times of massive food scarcity and the definition of fat was probably very different from what we consider fat today. 2. Massive amounts of money involved in telling people to eat/drink more, and then spend more money in gyms and taking pills to lose that weight. As opposed to just eating less…

That last one is a tricky, people shouldn't be bullied..it's demotivational. I think it's better to stick to that, and just drop the term 'fat-shaming'.

I think changing the name doesn't take away the hate at the core here. People would be as fine with "fat-bullying" as they are with "fat-shaming", they see it as somewhere between "their social right" and "actually helping the person".

It is the same as changing "retard" to "mentally challenged" or "handicapped" to "disabled"... the next term just becomes equally toxic because you haven't changed the actual stigma, just the word used to express it.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#374

Post by soueuls » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 4:04 PM UTC

I am fat and I don’t really care.

But I don’t understand how some people come to understand that it’s healthy.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#375

Post by justinator » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 5:21 PM UTC

swatcoder wrote: post #350

chitowneats wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, it's a thorny issue. My own subjective experience of lifting weights 3x per week vs. biking 5+ miles into work 5x a week is that the lifting was far more successful in helping me lose weight. Ideally, you do both. But I worry that many people, especially those in this industry, underestimate the weight loss gains from building muscle.

FWIW, bikes are built to be efficient means of moving. Biking 50 or 100 miles per week only burns 250-500 calories, so you wouldn’t expect much weight change. That volume is good for keeping your body limber, but it’s not really exercise in terms of weight loss or cardio conditioning.

>Biking 50 or 100 miles per week only burns 250-500 calories, so you wouldn’t expect much weight change.

You may want to double check that math.

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/fitness-and-training/how-ma...

Perhaps 500 calories/hour is a rough estimate. 100 miles @ 15 mph = 6.66 hours = 3333 cals or roughly what it takes to burn 1lb of fat.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#376

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 5:23 PM UTC

CM30 wrote: post #295

rhaway84773 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are several reasons: 1. Historically being fat was considered a sign of good health. Of course, this was during times of massive food scarcity and the definition of fat was probably very different from what we consider fat today. 2. Massive amounts of money involved in telling people to eat/drink more, and then spend more money in gyms and taking pills to lose that weight. As opposed to just eating less…

> 1. Historically being fat was considered a sign of good health. Of course, this was during times of massive food scarcity and the definition of fat was probably very different from what we consider fat today. Wasn't it more a sign of being wealthy and successful? Like if you were fat, it meant you could afford to spend a lot of money/effort on getting food and didn't need to do difficult work outside for 8+ hours a…

There was a professor at my university who initiated to America from India when he was around 20 years old, and ended up accomplishing some great things in his field. People often asked him why he moved to America, expecting some story about believing in oneself, following your dreams, etc.

He always responded: "I just wanted to move to a place where the poor people were fat."

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#377

Post by justinator » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 5:23 PM UTC

chitowneats wrote: post #348

justinator wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if there's a way to properly measure the amount of cals it takes to build muscle. "Building Muscle" isn't just one thing. Muscle fiber being different than simply glycogen storing in the muscle, being different than mitochondria proliferation within the muscle cell being different than just water weight from getting on Creatine. All which produce "bigger muscle".

Agreed, it's a thorny issue. My own subjective experience of lifting weights 3x per week vs. biking 5+ miles into work 5x a week is that the lifting was far more successful in helping me lose weight. Ideally, you do both. But I worry that many people, especially those in this industry, underestimate the weight loss gains from building muscle.

Your personal experience sounds exceptional. Do you think that lifestyle changes you made while weightlifting also impacting your waistline? As in: you probably looked a little closer at what you were eating, so as to properly support you weightlifting habit.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#378

Post by etothepii » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 6:05 PM UTC

manmal wrote: post #246

etothepii wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your arithmetic does not support the use of the word vastly. It only diverges by mine on the line above by 25%.

> 4.3 to 13.3 kg That’s not a vast range? It means some people gain more than they „should“, and some less than half of the caloric intake. It’s also not „my“ arithmetic btw.

Apologies. Though my statement holds with s/Your/That/.

My original response was to a comment suggesting that overweight and obese people get home and eat 15 chocolate bars. My observation, supported by your additional evidence, is that a small imbalance has a substantial cumulative effect.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#379

Post by aquaticsunset » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 7:11 PM UTC

bira wrote: post #84

wanderingbort wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply put, it’s an enabling belief. Being obese isn’t a root cause. It is a symptom of something else. Particularly, when it is a symptom of depression, believing in “healthy obesity” can be enabling even if it’s not the truth. That person (not statistic) needs to see themselves as healthy and loved to have a chance at being healthy. Telling them to eat better or exercise is thinking about yourself in a generic vers…

It they see themselves just as healthy as obese, why would they want not to be obese? Sounds like enabling obesity to me. Telling them to eat better or exercise doesn't work because it's a pain in the ass to be in a caloric deficit. They have statistically low dopamine levels (among other markers being out of wack) so they just don't have the mental fuel to deal with doing what's hard. That's what lead them to be obe…

The key here is to encourage and promote healthy behaviors no matter what size you are, and to treat human beings like humans. I don't know why it became socially acceptable to treat others like absolute garbage in public, but it sure isn't going to help society become healthier.

How do we know it isn't going to help? Because we've been trying it for decades. Thin people yelling at fat people to lose weight in public does nothing. Time to focus on the systemic unhealthy issues our culture has and stop treating someone's fatness as their own, individual failure.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#380

Post by aquaticsunset » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 7:28 PM UTC

harshreality wrote: post #245

kennywinker wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get to eat what I want and sit around all day? Hell yeah! I am naturally thin. That statement ("i get to eat what i want and sit around all day") is true of my body. Is it such a strange idea that there are as many people who are naturally thin as there are that are naturally fat? Those people aren't making a choice to be fat any more than i am making a choice to be thin. Why should they feel bad about their body…

I'm naturally thin too, but thin is relative. I noticed on day soon after college that I was starting to acquire (relatively minor) fat deposits, and despite that not making me even close to overweight, I resolved that I wasn't going to put up with that. Since then I've payed more attention to health and fitness. I could eat pizza all the time and not be overweight, but I don't because I know that would be unhealthy.

That's okay - you're not the topic of this article. If you want to trim up and tone because it makes you happy, that's fantastic!

The criticism of "lose weight at any cost necessary" is that people who have been fat their entire lives will get yelled at to lose a significant percentage of their body weight, with very little care given to their actual health.

It's incredibly naive and destructive to assume all extremely fat people got that way because "they eat pizza all the time" and they should simply stop eating so much pizza to fix all of life's problems. If they can't lose the weight it's clearly because they're not trying hard enough.

That's why the discussion around this isn't changing the needle on America's weight gain (or most populations across the Earth). We focus on the thinness of the person before we focus on the health.