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California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

oag.ca.gov

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Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#371

Post by bagels »

wpietri wrote: post #20
eganist wrote: post #5

Tons of industries affected by this, though hospitality comes to mind as being particularly egregious. "resort fees" you can't get out of where they tell you what you're "getting" for those fees, Airbnb service fees, cleaning fees, things that should all be spread across the nightly rate. The feds doing this for airfare was the best thing to happen for consumers shopping for flights. Ideally we would take it further…

I agree with you on almost all of this, but I think the cleaning fee is different. It represents an actual cost for an actual activity. I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off. As an example, right now I'm looking at doing an extended trip, on the order of 2-4 weeks. I just need one…

By that logic, they should also charge independently for: rolls of toilet paper used, water used, electricity, booking fee, advertising fee, email fee, listing fee...

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#372

Post by keenmaster »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

I think a lot of comments here are missing the reason as to why these hidden fees have become so much more prevalent in the past 20 or so years. The short of it is that comparison pricing is now much easier to do because of the Internet, and many, if not a majority, of shoppers will just sort by price ascending and pick the first result (or, only pick from the first couple results). Thus, there is a huge incentive fo…

The most consumer-friendly outcome would be if all market participants used transparent pricing at each tier of product/service.

This maximizes what the consumer receives per dollar spent, because they can easily compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges across many competitors.

How about this for an A/B test (rhetorical): show consumers one universe where perfect competition is enforced like I describe above, and one universe where most market participants bait and switch customers, forcing them to shop for hours and then ending up paying more for less.

Or compare shopping at the grocery store vs shopping even the most fungible medical procedures between 2 hospitals :) (if you can even manage to shop the latter)

If you think consumers like to be tricked, you either need to zoom out of the narrow context where that seems to be true, or you’re financially incentivized to swindle the plebs.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#373

Post by digianarchist »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #369
digianarchist wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VAT is still shown on receipts in the UK same as it is in the US. What’s annoying in the US is sales tax isn’t applicable to a range of items depending on the state and often not at all on services. When it’s included in the price there’s no surprises at the register.

VAT is still shown on receipts in the UK same as it is in the US. Even so, I'd bet that most Brits couldn't tell you what the standard rate of VAT is, or guess something between 17% to 23% (i.e. to within 15%). I'd imagine that a greater proportion of Californians could tell you that sales tax is about 10%.

I think most Brits know VAT is 20%. If they don't it's because it's changed three times in the last 15 years.

I couldn't even tell you what the California sales tax is without referencing this table.

https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/taxes-and-fees/rates.aspx

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#374

Post by ddingus »

ddingus wrote: post #307
dangwhy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tipping This has gotten ridiculous past 2-3 year. Buy a $3.00 coffee , $1 tip is expected. I hate those ipad type payment consoles.

I have started inputting a custom amount. Recently, I've noticed some places keeping the machine out of my hands and flat out asking, "what should I do here?" It's way over the top aggressive now.

Meta: I missed my edit window, and apologize for the reply on my own post here.

Soon, I will just start asking them to input something that takes work: "Please input $0.57, thank you SO MUCH!"[0]

I expect the "custom amount" button to go away, at which point I will say something about making sure the average amount is about what I wanted to pay, and that means skipping some tips, and paying others, and oh by the way can you make a note of that. Is your manager here... Sorry about that, but getting this stuff right is really important...

This is all a really craptastic game I would rather not play.[1]

[0] I expect someone to get it wrong, or try and skate out on that little bit of work. Hoo boy! "Nope, let's make sure it is right please. Yeah, go back, hit custom, and yes $0.57 please. Yeah, you got it! Thank you!"

[1] Like the check your bags Nazi they forced some poor soul to be. What I ended up doing was to get a gift receipt.

Then, as I am walking right out with the stuff they have my money for, I hand it to them, "Here, please hold on to this for me, thanks!"

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#375

Post by fineIllregister »

thewebcount wrote: post #302
jgeada wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they know how much to charge me at the payment step, they know what price to put on the shelf. Everything else is just making excuses for keeping it as opaque as it has always been in the US. Yes, it can get a bit more complicated for internet based stores, but even there they do already know how much to charge at the payment step, so again I say that it is a (customer hostile) choice not to show the real price up…

> If they know how much to charge me at the payment step, they know what price to put on the shelf. On the shelf, yes, but then what's on the shelf wouldn't match what's advertised on the Internet, in the paper, on TV and radio, etc. Because each city can have its own sales tax, and each state can have its own sales tax, if you're, say, McDonald's, you can't say a hamburger is $3.00 in your TV ad because it'll be $3.…

> ...if you're, say, McDonald's, you can't say a hamburger is $3.00 in your TV ad because it'll be $3.18 in Michigan, and $3.30 in California...

That really sounds like a McDonalds problem. Why should everyone put up with a bait and switch so huge companies can have an easier time advertising? If they need to advertise a 3$ burger all over the country, then they should be ready to pay the cost differences of providing that burger everywhere.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#376

Post by snotrockets »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #366
switz wrote: post #8

Taxes and fees should be mandated for all prices up front. This is how it works in most of the world, there's no good reason it shouldn't work that way here in the US. Someone will come along and point out an edge case, but for the vast majority of retail situations this is doable.

"there's no good reason it shouldn't work that way here in the US" There is a good reason for taxes to be shown separately: it draws your attention to how much the government is charging you. Like you'd, I'd prefer prices to show the total amount I have to pay, but I accept that there is at least one good reason against the situation common where I'm from (the UK).

Nothing stops you from printing it on the receipt, or putting it in the sign. Just don't force the buyer to do the math themselves.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#377

Post by miguelazo »

bushbaba wrote: post #6
miguelazo wrote: post #2

Can't wait. AirBnB is one of the worst offenders here.

Airbnb isn’t even cheaper or more convenient for most travel situations.

This has been very true for several years now, unless you need a kitchen.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#378

Post by miguelazo »

warning26 wrote: post #4
miguelazo wrote: post #2

Can't wait. AirBnB is one of the worst offenders here.

Interestingly, I believe Australia already did this, and so if you go to Airbnb’s Australia site you see the real prices. Personally I hope this apppies to “resort fees” at hotels; it’s ridiculous that hotels can have a mandatory fee that they can exclude from their posted price.

Agreed— “resort fees” are totally insane in places like Vegas and Hawaii. Even at hotels that aren’t actually resorts! Just because you have a pool and a gym doesn’t make you a resort!

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#379

Post by grahar64 »

shagie wrote: post #70
grahar64 wrote: post #27

As a foreigner who lived in the USA for a few years, I always thought the US runs in hidden fees. From tipping, to taxes not in the sale price, to insurances not being able to give a price for a procedure, to hotel fees… I could never actually guess how much anything would cost. Either the wording of the law will have a ton of exclusions per industry.

> to taxes not in the sale price This gets complicated and there's good reason. The taxes depend on where you take possession of the goods. If you purchase an item and walk up to the checkout counter, you pay the taxes there. On the other hand, if you are buying lumber in Kansas City, KS to be delivered in Kanas City, MO - you pay the MO taxes (4.225%) rather than the KS taxes (6.5%). So, putting the taxes on the lum…

Another annoying thing about the USA is the willingness to complicate everyones life based on a caveat only affecting a few.

Most people are only employed by one job, take the standard deduction, and have no other tax complications. But they are forced to file a tax return because they *might* have something to declare the IRS doesn't already know about.

Removing the sales tax from milk I am buying at a supermarket because a person might purchase lumber is insane, ..., right?

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#380

Post by hoonaneaRich »

The only purpose of a “resort fee” is to deceive. Customers are more likely to book if a lower rate is advertised. Taxing authorities lose revenue because hotel rooms are taxed at a much higher rate than “fees”. Travel agents are shorted their full commissions because they are based on the room rate.

The resort fee scam has spread to other areas. Where do you think Ticketmaster and airlines got the idea to deconstruct their pricing schemes? How about restaurants now adding fees in the fine print for everything from mandated health care to “area marketing plans” to higher cfedit card charges…instead of simply adjusting prices on the menu?

This consumer fraud has been ongoing since at least 1994 in Hawaii and 2010 elsewhere it escaped its “Maui Quarantine”. It is long past time that honesty in pricing be recognized and an enforced as a basic consumer protection.

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