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IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

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Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#371

Why this infatuation with low Earth orbit? Why not put just few satelites further out, like every other satellite internet provide does except starlink? EDIT: To people bringing up latency. Far away satellite has them far enough that they cover large area so the signal goes to satellite and back and that's it. Distance introduces latency. But in case of constallation packet must bounce through multiple satellites and…

Starlink originally planned to put their first shell at 1100 km altitude. They changed to 550km for several reasons. First, because it offered slightly reduced latency. Second, so long as you launch enough satellites, the reduced coverage region for each satellite is offset by having more satellites and hence (other things being equal) more bandwidth per area of land. Third, satellites at 550 km will naturally deorbit in a few years if something fails. So although they plan to actively deorbit the first satellites after 6 or 7 years to replace them with newer ones, if they get something wrong and have a lot of satellite failures, they really won't cause a long term problem. At 1100 km the orbit won't decay for centuries. If you have satellites fail, the rest of the constellation will be doing avoidance maneouvers for a very long time. Thus if your launch costs are low enough and you can mass-produce satellites cheap enough, you want them as low as possible. Somewhere around 500 km is about as low as you want to go, before too much of the satellite mass ends up being fuel to maintain orbit.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#372
post #4

> This future satellite constellation infrastructure will allow for synergies with private sector to develop commercial services and provide with high-speed internet and communication in all EU territory. Satellite internet isn’t great for speed. Europe is also so densely populated that full 4g coverage is totally doable. I think satellite internet is cool, but it doesn’t serve a real need and I expect this project t…

> satellite internet is cool, but it doesn’t serve a real need Starlink’s 100 Mbps [1] is faster than many European countries fixed averages and most’s mobile medians [2]. Also, the second sentence of this article cites the need: “critical scenarios where terrestrial networks are absent or disrupted, as observed, for instance, in the unfolding war in Ukraine.” [1] https://bigtechquestion.com/2022/01/10/broadband/how-…

Up to 100Mbps

Good luck getting half of that. Especially if you want to service any significant number of customers.

Meanwhile I get 600Mbps for about $30 in Poland.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#373
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genie is out of the bottle. DOD has seen Starlink in a real hot war and they love it . The constellation has become a national security asset. If it disappears, Pentagon will pay for another one.

Is there serious talk about launching one? They honestly should.

There are many. Lots of other large constellations being planned. Some from former GEO companies. Amazon. DoD is doing its own as well.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#374
post #28

There is always bashing if there is something about the EU and its national projects, not always deserved. However sometimes I wished HN showed more of local projects. For example: has there been a post about the European AI? https://www.aleph-alpha.com/

This article and your link reek of, "but Europe can do it too".

I don't know why the EU / Europe can't just do interesting things without coming across as so desperate to prove something – can we not just start a cool AI company without branding it a "European AI company", as if that's something so unlikely we should be proud of it?

An AI company started by kids would be something worth noting, an AI company started by the world's most prosperous and well educated continent is kinda cringy. I can't think of a single American company which does this.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#375
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting more junk in LEO is a serious problem but SpaceX started this and now others will also enter the market. Why should Starlink have monopolistic control over the high bandwidth SATCOM market?

> Why should Starlink have monopolistic control over the high bandwidth SATCOM market? I agree, but those satellites shouldn't have been there to begin with in my opinion. But it's too late now.

Why should the not be there? They are in an orbit that has essentially 0 practical chance at causing long term harm. They provide a service that is clearly very useful.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a third party (New Zealander), I don't think that's correct. I think the US criticism of EU is much more often baseless compared to the reverse situation (as evidenced by the number of issues which are picked up by the residents of non aligned countries).

Also as a New Zealander - I think the opposite - EU criticism of the US really misses many points about the competitiveness of their society and burden they bear protecting the rest of the world's democracies. I think it is really about people's personal politics - Kiwis generally are much more aligned (left) with EU socialism/interventionism and hence relate more and see US criticism as baseless. It's all a matter o…

As a USian, I think it is super important to question a super power that takes it upon themselves to protect the rest of the world's democracies--even if they have to force them into democracy first.

The same way I think it is super important to challenge Russia's current defense against Ukrainian aggression.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#377
post #80

I don't like putting more junk into LEO than we absolutely have to because it disrupts our space telescopes (which the EU has also invested over 1 billion euro in). I much rather have the funding go to improving land based internet infrastructure.

I'm european and dont like thousands of satelites swirrling around in the sky as well but I'd rather have government-founded satelites for the public benefit than from some way-too-rich sociopath's private company. Of course - this project would probably not exist without Starlink, so credit where credit is due. Personally I find it quite sad that we're destroying the night sky in the sense that before these projects…

> Personally I find it quite sad that we're destroying the night sky

That's not actually a thing.

> Now there are just so many satellites swirling around in your sight. I find that quite sad.

Except 99.9% of the time you can't see any of them. So for 99.9999% of people who don't do advanced space photography the night sky looks like it has always looked.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also as a New Zealander - I think the opposite - EU criticism of the US really misses many points about the competitiveness of their society and burden they bear protecting the rest of the world's democracies. I think it is really about people's personal politics - Kiwis generally are much more aligned (left) with EU socialism/interventionism and hence relate more and see US criticism as baseless. It's all a matter o…

"burden they bear protecting the rest of the world's democracies" As an Australian, that's a pretty glowing interpretation of the US intervening where they aren't wanted or needed Was the US protecting 'democracy' when they annexed Hawaii, or how they've treated Cuba? Or Vietnam or South America or Iraq or any litany of other countries Hell. They helped depose Gough Whitlam because he dared threaten to nationalize ou…

You’re completely disregarding that they’re talking about the US being the armed forces of all western democracies and strawmanning about 19th-early 20th century imperialism (which Western Europe took part in far more than the US did.)

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like putting out huge amount of objects on any orbit because if they collide bits of them might spread to any orbit depending on the size of chunks and exact collision geometry.

This is vastly overestimated problem. Changing orbits takes a lot of energy and most of these crashes don't have enough to put significant materials in a significant different orbit. If something is already on an orbit that decades within a decade or so, it still will.

If two things collide heads on there's decent probability of some chunks going twice as fast and twice as fast is 4 times the energy which means way higher orbit.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#380
post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all too different from Europeans smugly commenting about how crazy Americans are for having different priorities in threads that happen to relate to American issues.

In my experience, criticism of the US is of the "this is clearly harming more people than it helps" variety, while criticism of the EU is of the "look at what these silly people are trying to provide as a service to their citizens" variety.

Nah criticism from Europeans generally comes down, “look at dumb Americans doing things differently than us, don’t they know we’re objectively right about political and economic institutions?”
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