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Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

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Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#371

Post by klooney »

taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

Average car price doesn't make sense to compare to marginal car price. A new Corolla is still 21k.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#372

Post by sokoloff »

taylodl wrote: post #346
lotsofpulp wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of very high quality vehicles available for purchase at less than $47k for new and $28k for used. The average sale price is skewed by people choosing luxury purchases by buying larger (and fancier) than necessary vehicles. Also can be skewed by vehicles lasting longer in the first place, meaning poorer people do not need to buy cars as often, but richer people can choose to buy cars more often.

That helps a little, but still makes care ownership prohibitively expensive for young people. You're still looking at $350 per month for a 5 year old or newer vehicle, i.e. one that's reliable and has lower maintenance (and aggravation) costs. That still leaves you paying a little over $600 per month. From that point as you start lowering your finance costs you're going to increase your maintenance and aggravation co…

There are plenty of reliable 15-year old cars. (My wife drives a reliable 18-year old, 225K mile car. We took it on a 1600 mile roundtrip for the winter holidays this year with no particular fear that it wouldn't run like a top for the entire trip.)

The idea that cars are only reliable for 5 years and 60K miles is, IMO and IME, quite out-dated. That was more true in the days of carburetors, points-based ignition, and mazes of vacuum lines. A modern (meaning post-1996 at least) electronic fuel-injected car with electronic ignition and closed-loop fuel control tends towards very reliable for 15+ years and 200K+ miles.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#373

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

zamadatix wrote: post #321
taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

It's meaningless to talk about prices over time without normalising them to something like income of the group over that same time or at least inflation. E.g. if you look at the price of gas that way it really hasn't changed much in the last 50 years but mpg has gotten a lot better. I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar "not really that different" story for new cars. Used car prices have really went nuts since mid…

It's also meaningless to talk about these things without considering the other costs at play. Even if the car : income ratio remains the same but if the housing : income ratio changes that's going to change if people are buying cars.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#374

Post by klooney »

bena wrote: post #368
mastax wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a big part of that is changing consumer preferences for larger cars and, to a lesser extent, hybrids and EVs. As one data point, the 2004 Corolla LE's MSRP of $13,570 is $22,063 in 2023 dollars. The 2023 Corolla LE's MSRP is $21,550. And that's a larger and more featureful car. Used cars are still really expensive though.

Yeah, I just went check for a new Honda Civic, it's what I think of when I think of "average car" and it's in the 26/27 range. So it's gotta be partly because preferences have gone towards trucks and SUVs that are not only larger, but more expensive.

They don't even sell the old LX trim, it starts at Sport now.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#375

Post by leguy »

taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

> It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young.

Or maybe a reflection of higher expectations? Housing, healthcare, and vehicles are all examples of things that both cost more and are much more advanced than the same version previous generations had.

Also young people are living in cities more than previous generations and those cities are denser. The value prop of a car, price aside is less than it was for previous generations.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#376

Post by nradov »

rr808 wrote: post #331
taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

Meh, a brand new Toyota Corolla Hybrid is $24k including fees.

Ha ha good luck with that. Dealers don't actually stock the cheap base models, and most are charging additional mark ups due to limited supply and high demand. If you want to actually purchase a Corolla Hybrid today then your total price out the door including taxes and fees will likely be over $34K.

There are cheaper new cars available, though. You can get a little penalty box like a Mitsubishi Mirage or Nissan Versa for much less.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#377

Post by golemotron »

I think allure of cars for the young has always been that you can drive to where the 'scene' is.. the interesting things.

For GenZ the 'scene' is mostly online. There's no reason to go to a particular place to hang out with friends, meet new people or see something cool, interesting, and different.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#378

Post by taylodl »

rpastuszak wrote: post #367
taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

I think that outside of the US the reason is that _in most cases_ you just don’t need cars. They’re more of a hassle and take up a lot of space.

Even in the US, cars have an additional expense when living in the city: parking. I didn't even include parking fees in my monthly car ownership expenses calculation. In some US cities parking can be $20-$40 per day. I happen to live in an area where I can purchase parking for $80 per month, but as I said, that's an additional expense you have to tack on to the list. That makes owning a used car a proposition costing over $800 per month!

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#380

Post by taylodl »

klooney wrote: post #371
taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

Average car price doesn't make sense to compare to marginal car price. A new Corolla is still 21k.

That moves the monthly cost from $780 to $650. That's still an expensive proposition.
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