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Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

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Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#371

Post by rchaud »

Terretta wrote: post #189
a4isms wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, you are right. Jobs himself said that he wanted to go beyond selling computers, and sell information appliances. In that respect, he and Woz were diametrically opposed. When he was squeezed out of management in his own company, it is not a coïncidence that he elbowed his way into Jef Raskin's Macintosh project: Raskin was also interested in building information appliances, the difference between the two men wa…

Jobs called it "bicycles for the mind".* Back in the beginning there was lots of talk of "toasters" as an appliance every household has and even a child can use (to the point there was a famous screensaver of flying toasters). The Mac 512, Plus, and SE were embodiments of this. (The Apple //c with LCD attachment and carry handle was an earlier attempt.) Note that all of those included portability as a feature, while…

1984: A bicycle for the mind

2010: Post-PC age. cURL? Why not curl up on a couch with your favourite movie instead?

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#372

Post by yamtaddle »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #295
PedroBatista wrote: post #128

The relationship some developers have with Apple should be a case-study with multiple PhD thesis in psychology. Not even in movies I've seen so many cases of children desperately chasing their emotionally unavailable parent. Apple is a trillion dollar company, it's the "parent" who sells you +$40 dongles for everything. "Hobbies" are only good if they make them money AND doesn't increase their risk or any liability.…

> desperately chasing their emotionally unavailable parent God, could you be any more snide? Please keep your personal vendetta against off of HN.

I'll keep writing it until we get it: HN desperately needs blocklists.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#373

Post by rchaud »

cma wrote: post #242
a4isms wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, you are right. Jobs himself said that he wanted to go beyond selling computers, and sell information appliances. In that respect, he and Woz were diametrically opposed. When he was squeezed out of management in his own company, it is not a coïncidence that he elbowed his way into Jef Raskin's Macintosh project: Raskin was also interested in building information appliances, the difference between the two men wa…

At NeXT it seemed like Jobs did the opposite, making workstations for professionals.

That's because there wasn't any Linux back then. Apple has basically given up on enterprise offerings.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#374

Post by criddell »

nequo wrote: post #351
criddell wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they are like set top boxes and game consoles then? Just like the person you replied to said.

Yes. Parent also said that they are not real computers. What I am saying is that they are.

With the set top box, the fact that there’s a computer in there is just an implementation detail.

Technically there’s a real computer in my refrigerator, my printer, and my headphones but I don’t have any expectation that these are general purpose computers that are available for me to compute on. I think it’s those expectations that matter and it isn’t always black and white.

I look at my phone as being similar to a PS5. I understood that both devices were somewhat locked down when I bought and in fact that’s part of the reason I bought them. If the PS5 had an authorized mode that could run any software it would be a worse device. If I wanted something more open, those devices are available and that’s what I would have bought (and have bought in the past).

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#376

Post by can16358p »

It's probably to prevent sideloading/pirating etc.

Assume you could freely push a build onto your device: there would be many secondary stores and pirate platforms providing almost single click ways to download, build, and push apps to your phone.

Apple wouldn't want that. I don't think their intention is to break hobbyists but more like a side effect of their App Store policy.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#377

Post by LarryMullins »

chongli wrote: post #131
smoldesu wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does letting people freely sideload apps conflict with this philosophy? You can still use your iPad as the world's most expensive e-reader if you want, letting other people run Linux on it doesn't somehow ruin your experience.

I think what Apple’s afraid of is an app like Facebook tricking/forcing users to sideload in order to bypass privacy protections and get full access to user data. I don’t think they’re at all worried about hobbyists sideloading open source apps. Everyone likes to say “but would Apple would lose the $100/yr from all those hobbyists.” How many hobbyists do you think are out there right now paying $100/year just to load…

> I think what Apple’s afraid of is an app like Facebook tricking/forcing users

Apple treats their users like a nursing home treats senile people.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#378

Post by bobleeswagger »

fulafel wrote: post #162
bobleeswagger wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can find any Apple developers from Egypt or South Africa making median wage, I will happily pay for their yearly developer fees. Good luck.

It's about not gatekeeping the people who are future devs, wanting to learn, want to try making their own hobby apps to share with others, maybe prospective employers. Also, the credit card requirement brought up in a sibling comment is a barrier.

> It's about not gatekeeping the people who are future devs, wanting to learn, want to try making their own hobby apps to share with others, maybe prospective employers

I assure you that Apple and this developer program has very little do to with the barriers those folks face.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#379

Post by irrational »

PedroBatista wrote: post #128

The relationship some developers have with Apple should be a case-study with multiple PhD thesis in psychology. Not even in movies I've seen so many cases of children desperately chasing their emotionally unavailable parent. Apple is a trillion dollar company, it's the "parent" who sells you +$40 dongles for everything. "Hobbies" are only good if they make them money AND doesn't increase their risk or any liability.…

I agree, but... in my experience Android and Android devices suck in comparison to iOS and iPhones. Why can't anyone else create a true competitor to iOS and iPhone that is as open as Android? Is it because of Apple patents? Is it because they assume that if a company as large as Google couldn't do it then nobody can do it? Is it just developers are such a small part of the general populace that there is no money in creating something that will most appeal to them? That is, apple devices already have the mindshare of people who have no interest in creating their own apps and Android already has the rest of the populace, who can't afford apple products, tied up? So, creating a phone that is open while being as nice as iOS/iPhone just isn't a profitable endeavor?

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#380

Post by sixstringtheory »

jakub_g wrote: post #369
gofreddygo wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> offence against the entire notion of what a computer is YES! I feel offended in Apple's ecosystem. Consistently. When I can't upgrade, can’t even fix my own overpriced laptop because of soldered parts. When I can't copy MY photos out of MY device, without uploading it to Apple's cloud. When I can't buy OEM parts for older Apple devices because Apple put a noose around independent suppliers. When (like the OP found)…

> When I can't copy MY photos out of MY device, without uploading it to Apple's cloud. Wait, what? (Not an Apple user - genuinely curious)

They probably mean from an iOS device to a PC/Android. It can be done without using iCloud, but you’ll need a macOS machine or special iOS app to do it.
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