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Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

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Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#371

Post by prpl »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #272

We may live in a society without a counterculture. We have many, but not one dominant one.

I’ve definitely been part of a musical counterculture my entire adult life (maybe you might omit the last 3 years though). I’ve easily seen more than 1000 performances in that time, from cave shows to pickle factories to stadiums. You’d probably identify it as punk/garage/indie, but there is a subculture there. I’m usually amazed that it’s larger than I expect, at least in the bay area.

I also worked in physics most of that time, which is probably a subculture there as well (some overlap I suppose with a broader subculture of non-profits workers).

I also lived in Utah (Salt Lake City), where you are effective a subculture (counter culture) almost by virtue of living there and not being LDS.

None of those are homogenous, but all are counter to the prevailing culture - which is the much harder thing to define.

Which is my point - we don’t even have a prevailing culture, and we never really did, not a universal one anyway.

That said, it’s likely that white/christian/suburban/nuclear family was considered the prevailing culture though. That’s a subculture today - albeit an unusually powerful one.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#372

Post by sjsdaiuasgdia »

zirgs wrote: post #249
AmericanChopper wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article (and my comments, and I believe the comments I was replying to) are referring to the United States.

Lots of people are still against gay marriage in the USA. In many states it was legalised against the wishes of the majority. And it can be made illegal again. Just like abortions.

The public opinion numbers on this topic have changed drastically over the last two decades. It's an increasingly minority opinion. In 2004 it was 2:1 against same sex marriage. By 2022 it's 6:4 in favor. It's probably outdated to consider opposition to same sex marriage a majority opinion in much of the US.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/11/15/about-six-i...

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#373

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

neonnoodle wrote: post #71

The medium is the message dudes. At this point in history, what will qualify a true counterculture is NOT BEING ONLINE. Whatever the true counterculture will be, it won’t be subject to the Internet and its all-seeing eye. It won’t be made out of memes and flame wars. No matter what the political bent, we’re all very much a captive audience online. “Master’s house/master’s tools” and all that.

I mostly agree although just because something uses the pipes doesn't mean they are subject to that.

Federation, onion sites, unindexed sites, something new entirely that runs on TCP/IP

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#374

Post by alldayeveryday »

standardUser wrote: post #345
alldayeveryday wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, you lump all of queer culture into one group, a false categorization without which your augment fails. In fact, I do lump them onto one group. Many subgroups inside a group. You know who I am referring to when I say queer culture. The group exists, it isn't false. Colors keep getting added to the flag. Rather than engage with reality you prefer to have useless rhetorical debates. Let's move past that. >Secon…

The culture of the 60s was not hippies, they were the counterculture by any possible definition.

I guess I just have the view that if I am turning on the radio, the TV, watching a movie, a tv show, celebrity voices, the state department, etc - and I am seeing the counterculture, then I am actually just seeing the culture.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#375

Post by Mezzie »

mulmen wrote: post #282
Mezzie wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been wondering lately if it's down to the lack of agency on the part of average people. Like I see that America is in decline and has a decent chance of falling apart in my lifetime (I'm 34), but what exactly am I going to do about it? Nobody in charge cares, they're too busy fiddling. If you can't stop the decline and have to live it, why not try to enjoy what you have while you have it?

Worry less about America and more about your city, especially your neighborhood. Democracy does work. People do make a difference every day. Don’t let the internet get you down.

I'm actually very locally active and came to the same conclusion in that I think building local institutions is the best thing that I can do right now.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#376

Post by standardUser »

goodSteveramos wrote: post #350
standardUser wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that it's an unpopular position, it's that the argument is flawed and the point you're trying to make falls flat. First, you lump all of queer culture into one group, a false categorization without which your augment fails. Second, you assert that being in the overwhelmingly dominant racial group, the overwhelmingly dominant sexual orientation and the undeniably dominant gender should somehow be interpreted…

Counter to what? Minority groups are in charge of America so the majority traditional culture IS the counterculture.

If minority groups are "in charge", why is most of the wealth, corporate power and political power in the hands of majority groups?

Obviously cultural norms change over time, and many ideas that were once fringe are now mainstream. But that doesn't mean that the majority white, straight, Christian(ish) majority in America doesn't still wield most of the power.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#377

Post by [deleted] »

alldayeveryday wrote: post #374
standardUser wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The culture of the 60s was not hippies, they were the counterculture by any possible definition.

I guess I just have the view that if I am turning on the radio, the TV, watching a movie, a tv show, celebrity voices, the state department, etc - and I am seeing the counterculture, then I am actually just seeing the culture.

[deleted]

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#379

Post by dnissley »

mrcrumb1 wrote: post #292
alldayeveryday wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another hard agree. I always get a good laugh when people in queer culture claim to be living a counter culture lifestyle. Meanwhile the US state department is flying the queer flag at its embassies around the world and using it to agitate foreign conservative cultures. I nominate being an unapologetic white male as the counter culture of our current time. Just watch how many downvotes you'll get on any social media…

[flagged]

Why did you include the word "unapologetic" in this statement?
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