Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service • Hacker News Board

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#371

Post by ifyoubuildit » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:36 AM UTC

ImaCake wrote: post #256

nhchris wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've assumed a great deal more about their behavior than was written. The professor even states "no unwanted advances are taking place", contradicting your characterization. Indeed, your extra assumptions would qualify as 'disruption', and I imagine the professor would be well within her rights to expel such students. But merely offering, not pushing, assistance, or even less "showboating", letting students in sear…

>Some of the young students in my class take up these offers, and this further demoralizes other female students seeing this happen (i.e. only attractive women being offered tutoring sessions). This is further compounded by the condescension involved (i.e. one self-admitted user of the app told me "this material that others struggle with is so easy for me, and I'm doing it for laughs and phone numbers."). This sugges…

Don't want to make you mad, but odds are someone has done something positive for you at some point solely for one trait about you that they coveted, be it money, your network, your sense of humor, the way you dressed that day, or yes, possibly even the physical shape of your face and/or body.

Why be upset about the sky being blue?

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#372

Post by type-r » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:37 AM UTC

bitmunk wrote: post #192

tiahura wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Girls must be protected from being asked out at all costs because they are strong and independent future girl-bosses.

Let's change the subjects from "horny upperclassmen" to "MLM representatives that want to get new suckers". Would you be fine with going to a class where a significant percentage of people are trying to get you to sell Amway products? And they don't give a damn about the class?

I mean, yeah? If it turned into harassment then no, but the post itself says that's not happening.

How is this any different from Bob talking your ear off about some hobby that he has that you have absolutely zero interest in? You just don't listen or tell him directly you don't care. This thread makes me feel like I'm going insane, this is basic human interaction.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#373

Post by makeitdouble » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:37 AM UTC

troupe wrote: post #95

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody cares if college students try to date other students from their classes. It is weird when people take a class specifically because of that reason though. It is even weirder when the class in question is something that they have a very high skill level in specifically so that they will be able leverage that into some kind of situation that leads to dating. This is pretty cut and dry to me, I am not sure why so…

> It is weird when people take a class specifically because of that reason though. Really? I know people who specifically chose their entire major based on the ratio of women in that major.

I assume you are using that phrasing as a proxy for "they want to date".

To note, chosing a field with higher ratio of women can be good for completely different reasons. After spending years in almost 100% male environments, moving to more balanced and diverse environments was like night and day, the toxicity was mostly gone, discussions and communication would be more interesting etc. I heard the same for women moving away from women only places as well.

So yes, looking at the ratio can be plenty helpful outside of any dating concern.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#374

Post by lelanthran » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:37 AM UTC

I-love-india wrote: post #93

nhchris wrote: post #43

> This might be hard, as no unwanted advances are taking place. We simply have students excelling at the course, and drawing-in a crowd. I should've been more clear with my "leching" comment. Still, it seems harassing in nature. It seems increasingly that society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues, and outside those strictly delimited places, men are to be…

No, you just to treat women with respect. The issue here is intention. The intention here is not about teaching or learning in the class. But its using that pretence in fact distrupting the intention of the class and people there. How do you like your intention distrupted? How about by unattractive slobs who are objectifying you and trying to be "helpful" and trying tricks they found on internet If someone is trying…

> Isn't it totally distracting to you if someone you're not attracted in is looking at you and commenting on you and trying to "help" you?

That would be the "unwanted advances" that the complainants claim did not happen.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#375

Post by krick » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:38 AM UTC

nhchris wrote: post #43

> This might be hard, as no unwanted advances are taking place. We simply have students excelling at the course, and drawing-in a crowd. I should've been more clear with my "leching" comment. Still, it seems harassing in nature. It seems increasingly that society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues, and outside those strictly delimited places, men are to be…

It might be a bit harsh to say "society demands". Society created that dating service, and, apparently, society accepted it eagerly enough for that to be seen as a problem by some other part of that society, which then came about complaining on academia.stackexchange.com.

I'm not even trying to say that the former is a majority that represents the real desires of the "society", and the latter is a vocal minority: I don't have the data for that (even though I suspect that might be the case — but again, I don't know). I'm trying to say, that I'm wary of such wording, because it contains an implicit assertion that some part of the society isn't really a part of society and what it demands doesn't count. Because society demands this and that, and whoever wants anything else, isn't the society: at best, it's a sore spot on the body of the society, which should be treated as such, by applying a medicine to cure that... thing. Which is rather totalitarian worldview.

So, I get what you are trying to say, but even just by saying it like that you kinda help the cause you are supposedly against.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#376

Post by wilsonnb3 » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:38 AM UTC

notinfuriated wrote: post #357

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are someone who genuinely enjoys the company of women over the company of men, then I agree that it is not misogynistic. But that isn't really what we are talking about. The average hypothetical man choosing his class or major because of how many women are in it isn't looking to make female friends. He just wants to surround himself with a higher percentage of people that he is sexually attracted to.

Are you saying that being sexually attracted to women is misogynistic? I assume you're not saying that, but you're not explaining why this behavior is misogynistic. At best, you might mean that if a man is sexually attracted to women, and he seeks out the company of women, then he must believe that women are sexual objects made strictly for his personal pleasure. Is that what you're trying to say?

> you might mean that if a man is sexually attracted to women, and he seeks out the company of women, then he must believe that women are sexual objects made strictly for his personal pleasure.

I am sort of saying this but not as tautologically as you are stating it.

I am saying that generally, when someone chooses a class or major because of the high percentage of people taking it that said person is sexually attracted to, said person is probably objectifying those people. Said person is probably not interested in friendships with those people or with the personality of those people.

I am not saying that any situation in which a person seeks out another person that they are sexually attracted to is misogynistic or requires objectification.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#377

Post by runarberg » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:38 AM UTC

ShredKazoo wrote: post #85

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody cares if college students try to date other students from their classes. It is weird when people take a class specifically because of that reason though. It is even weirder when the class in question is something that they have a very high skill level in specifically so that they will be able leverage that into some kind of situation that leads to dating. This is pretty cut and dry to me, I am not sure why so…

"Weird" is not the same as "immoral"

Perhaps not, but after the novelty wears out, I think there is a high correlation with weird and annoying (especially within the realms of human behavior). And high annoyance within a class setting can for sure be problematic (or at the very least, questionable).

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#378

Post by areoform » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:38 AM UTC

jhanschoo wrote: post #198

I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…

It goes deeper than that. It's predatory. And it can go from being harmless to SA really fast if you're on the receiving end.

If you are a SA, or a CSA, survivor, then this is the kind of behavior that gives you nightmares. I know, because it gives me nightmares. And it's brought up in almost every support group I've been a part of. Their behavior is identical to someone who profiles a victim type, seeks opportunities to put themselves in the victim's path, and creates an opportunity to engage.

At the extreme end, Bundy did this with a cast and by targeting times of high stress (exam time). He would place the car outside of dorms and essentially fumble putting things in a car. Women would come up and start trying to help him; at which point, he'd kidnap them,

> Further similarities between the victims were noted: the disappearances all took place at night, usually near ongoing construction work, and were within a week of midterm or final exams. All of the victims were wearing slacks or blue jeans when they disappeared, and at many crime scenes there were sightings of a man wearing a cast or a sling and driving a brown or tan Volkswagen Beetle.

This post isn't to say that these people are Bundy. That's not the point. If you had 50 glasses of wine in front of you, but 1 of them contained cyanide, would you drink the wine at random? Now, what if the wine glasses were being forced on you? And you still didn't know?

1 in 50 to 1 in 10 of these people won't have such nice intentions. 1 in 100 will be a psychopath. If you are at the receiving end, how do you know? How do you differentiate between the majority that's innocent and the years of hell and therapy on the other hand?

Would you want to navigate this every time you went to class to learn?

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#379

Post by ShredKazoo » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:39 AM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #365

ShredKazoo wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So just to establish: You would be okay with someone say, joining a company with the explicit purpose of dating and not doing their work, yeah? Getting a job and then not doing your work makes you a shitty employee, and being a shitty employee is bad. You're violating the spirit of your employment contract, that your employer gives you money and you do work for them in return.

Correct, now apply that to being a student. When you go to college, there is a contract that you sign to not cheat, to not be disruptive. To be a 'good' student (which doesn't necessarily entail passing classes, but not affecting others or being dishonest). Guess what these people are doing in this situation.

>When you go to college, there is a contract that you sign to not cheat, to not be disruptive.

Cheating isn't relevant when you're auditing a class.

I think the key issue is how disruptive the behavior really is. My suspicion is that it isn't very disruptive and the people complaining are being oversensitive.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#380

Post by fragmede » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:39 AM UTC

kcb wrote: post #341

fragmede wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are, in fact, decent, and find going to frat parties to engage with a drunk girl who can't properly consent, or hiring a prostitute, to be reprehensible. Online dating doesn't work unless you're in the top X% of attractiveness, so what's a college student to do? They're not generally rich enough to garner the attention of women that way, and they're competing against a larg pool of older men who are .

> Online dating doesn't work unless you're in the top X% of attractiveness I find that most people that say this only attempt to match with people in the top X% of attractiveness.

Nice shade. But if someone is able to meet people in-person and get dates from people in that top X%, then the conclusion that it's the online component of online dating that's at fault doesn't seem unwarranted.