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Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

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Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, no. Had he been drawn to a programming conference, I wouldn’t have been able to draw a line between the dangers he’d been near and those interests. But when you see someone in a situation, and see them drawn to the wrong things for the wrong reasons, yes of course it triggers at least concern. I wish a lot I had been wrong.

I don't think it's fair to conflate mushrooms and psychedelics with Fentanyl.

On the one hand, you're absolutely correct.

On the other hand, there is some overlap in classification here: experience-altering substances.

OP's intuition is, "this person's entire mental interest pool is consumed by some form of escapism."

There's some fallacy in this equating, but the heuristic isn't way off.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they were excited to go to some convention in Minneapolis that was all about mushrooms and psychedelics. What struck me was how excited they were, how into that community they were. I couldn't relate. I thought to myself, isn't there anything in your life more exciting than this? Are you always this judgmental of others’ interests? Do you have these feelings towards someone excited about e.g. a new video game or a…

Actually, no. Had he been drawn to a programming conference, I wouldn’t have been able to draw a line between the dangers he’d been near and those interests. But when you see someone in a situation, and see them drawn to the wrong things for the wrong reasons, yes of course it triggers at least concern. I wish a lot I had been wrong.

Also a note of caution... You could easily fall prey to confirmation bias on this one. Their interest in shrooms or psychedelics isn't necessarily a straight line to fentanyl. Plenty of people have one without the other.

I have a lot of interest in psychedelics (haven't tried it myself). How would you know if my interest is "for the wrong reasons"? And, what level of judgment clarity is required to know if the reasons are wrong, right, or neither?

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#373
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are at the point in the fentanyl epidemic where most users are specifically seeking out fentanyl or fentanyl laced drugs.

Citation needed.

Here you go! Plenty of similar articles out there if you search for this yourself. I’ve also seen people break up these pills and put into glass pipes to smoke at the train station.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/feared-illicit-fe...

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are at the point in the fentanyl epidemic where most users are specifically seeking out fentanyl or fentanyl laced drugs.

Because fentanyl is way cheaper by itself. Why mix in more expensive drugs? The issue is China, full stop.

Exactly, fentanyl is now cheaper than most other drugs and opiods. So many opioid users have just switched to fentanyl. Why pay extra for heroin? The issue is also the cartel in mexico, fentanyl is produced there too.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/feared-illicit-fe...

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are at the point in the fentanyl epidemic where most users are specifically seeking out fentanyl or fentanyl laced drugs.

I suspect most people looking for cocaine or methamphetamine or mdma are not looking for fentanyl.

Maybe, but theres also a huge market for fentanyl specifically because its the cheapest opioid you can get your hands on.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/feared-illicit-fe...

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because fentanyl is way cheaper by itself. Why mix in more expensive drugs? The issue is China, full stop.

Exactly, fentanyl is now cheaper than most other drugs and opiods. So many opioid users have just switched to fentanyl. Why pay extra for heroin? The issue is also the cartel in mexico, fentanyl is produced there too. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/feared-illicit-fe...

I agree. Blows my mind that I was downvoted so hard on my factual comment. But it is HN.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#377
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the government subscribed wholly to utilitarian ethics, it's arguable that it would be an ethical imperative to contaminate the fentanyl supply with vaccine. I don't agree, and think it's immoral and unethical to subject citizens to such medical treatment without informed consent. However, under some ethical systems, the improvement in aggregate health makes in an ethical necessity.

The US government has actually done similar things before, such as poisoning bootlegged alcohol with methanol. It's good that you bring it up because at some point somebody in power will.

Drug treatment is a common alternative to jail time. Clean drug tests are often a condition of bail and parole.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#378
post #311
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"investigating systems in their totality rather than focusing on isolated interactions within them" is not inherently conspiratorial. It's far weirder to suggest that "more people want to party for no particular reason" or "more doctors prescribe pain meds for no particular reason" than it is to suggest reasons that might contribute (say, "more people are suffering from chronic pain than before as the disparity betwe…

You make a good point regarding incentive structures in pharma - but this is nothing like what OP was saying. OP is asking for a “Frommian psychoanalytic approach,” whatever that is. Your point about chronic pain increase is totally implausible. Automation of manual labor should result in less chronic pain, not more. The problem here is overprescription, and it’s my fault that my comment didn’t make that clear. As re…

Sorry, I missed this reply when you made it 11 days ago. Happy to respond:

Automation of manual labor _should_ result in a _lot_ of benefits to workers. But here's the thing: Automation is, largely, capital. And under capitalism, ownership of capital is private. That means that the benefits from automation are largely under control over the owners of it. And that ownership is for the purpose of making a profit. It is more profitable to automate as much as possible while simultaneously working the workers who are left as hard as possible, while paying the minimum amount to successfully do so.

This leads to a situation like we have in the U.S., where productivity has massively skyrocketed while median real wage has actually _decreased_ since the 70s. That median real wage means workers who can pay for less for a given hour for work, which means workers who need to work more _somewhere_ in order to support their conditions of work (pay for a place to live, pay for food, etc). Working more hours means getting less rest, which means less recovery, which means ::drumroll:: more chronic pain. The stats bear this out, and it's trivial to corroborate: The lowest-wage earners work more hours for less pay than they did fifty years ago, while percentage of take-home that goes to mortgage/rent has increased. This is a recipe for misery, and the most unbelievable thing about it is that it's not patently obvious to everyone. "Over-prescription" exists in those conditions: Pharma both has the incentive to sell more than is necessary, and no incentive to cure the actual _cause_ that bring people to seek a remedy for pain in the first place. "Partying", in this analysis, is not just a thing people "like to do" that they are now suddenly doing with more-abundant pain meds--it is a thing people are doing _with pain meds_ because those meds are _the thing that makes the general pain of being alive easier to deal with_, a thing large-scale abuse of substances (notably, alcohol) has been doing for thousands of years, where increased consumption has correlated strongly with increased human misery.

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