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Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

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Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#371

Post by bbbbb5 »

from wrote: post #218
pxeger1 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could press criminal charges against all Meta executives and extradite them from the US. Of course this is ridiculous and will never happen for a number of reasons, but it shows that the EU doesn't have literally no teeth.

America requires dual criminality for extradition. America has no privacy law similar to GDPR so that couldn't happen + I think GDPR violations are a civil thing only (?).

> I think GDPR violations are a civil thing only (?).

Correct, however most countries have various related criminal offences. (e.g https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/12/section/170/ena...) It's extremely unlikely any of these would be relevant in this context though.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#372

Post by whazor »

rybosworld wrote: post #280
LelouBil wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy to be an EU citizen for all the great tech regulations that are actually passing here !

On the other hand, this seems like an easy way to avoid addressing Europe's lack of it's own tech industry. If Europe wants more ethical tech, they should make an honest effort to create an environment that supports that. I.e., invest in their own tech industry.

In countries where Facebook is banned, there are local alternatives. So maybe regulations are the way to go.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#373

Post by robin_reala »

jefftk wrote: post #363
cycomanic wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So essentially you want to take choice away from the majority of consumers because it might make certain business models unprofitable and you want that business model for yourself? If that's not what you want then you need to better explain your point because right now it certainly sounds like that.

> you want to take choice away from the majority of consumers Huh? My worry here is that privacy regulation will reduce the choices available to consumers. If it's legal for some services to offer "pay with ads + fraud detection" and others to offer "pay with your money" we can see what sort of services consumers prefer. In most areas online it turns out its the former. Regulation removes the first option. > you want…

You’re straw-manning ads against personalised ads. There’s nothing stopping sites from targeting ads in ways that don’t require the processing of personal information (as your example, HN, already does).

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#374

Post by jefftk »

robin_reala wrote: post #373
jefftk wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you want to take choice away from the majority of consumers Huh? My worry here is that privacy regulation will reduce the choices available to consumers. If it's legal for some services to offer "pay with ads + fraud detection" and others to offer "pay with your money" we can see what sort of services consumers prefer. In most areas online it turns out its the former. Regulation removes the first option. > you want…

You’re straw-manning ads against personalised ads. There’s nothing stopping sites from targeting ads in ways that don’t require the processing of personal information (as your example, HN, already does).

As I wrote in my response to pif above [1] it's pretty likely that the GDPR also requires consent for detecting ad fraud, without which advertising isn't practical on most sites.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34248454

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#375

Post by InfamousRece »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #172
elcomet wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And no one will ever give them permission. Why would you?

I’ve seen people comment on here how they actually like personalized ads.

They like personalized ads because they work for ad tech.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#376

Post by nine_k »

no_time wrote: post #364
nine_k wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of upside do you see in this lack of targeting? (Asking unironically, too; different people value different aspects.)

https://www.socialcooling.com/ This site explains better than I could.

A great link, thanks!

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#377

Post by rybosworld »

Nextgrid wrote: post #302
rybosworld wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, this seems like an easy way to avoid addressing Europe's lack of it's own tech industry. If Europe wants more ethical tech, they should make an honest effort to create an environment that supports that. I.e., invest in their own tech industry.

> If Europe wants more ethical tech, they should make an honest effort to create an environment that supports that. I.e., invest in their own tech industry. Which is difficult if tech has been monopolised by US companies that break the laws, so they're addressing that for a start, as to level the playing field (both with GDPR and other regulations such as the Digital Markets Act).

By breaking laws implemented after the fact?

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#378

Post by red_admiral »

Nextgrid wrote: post #315
int_19h wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"5 EUR/month but we'll give it for free if you agree to personalised ads" Is this an edge case? My understanding is that it's legal under GDPR.

It's a grey area. It's illegal under the GDPR, but some newspapers in Europe are taking the gamble and seem to be getting away with it for the time being.

I'm not sure if it's been tested in court, but there are certainly newspapers as you say that are doing this - including from quite major publishing houses. Personally I just open their pages in private browsing tabs anyway, if everyone did that it would probably kill the business model (even before we talk about uBlock).

My (non-lawyer) opinion is it's probably illegal if you're making a sham paid tier to justify working around the GDPR, and probably fine if you're a "real" paid product which offers the extra option of paying with data instead of cash. I guess in a court case it would be interesting what percentage of daily active users are on the paid tier.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#379

Post by thenaturalist »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #142
monero-xmr wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is a museum at this point. Tourism is their future. What industrial sectors are left are protected by huge government subsidies and tariffs, but as energy goes up in price and their economic dynamism continues to fall, their future is keeping the capital cities pretty for US and Chinese to visit and take pictures. A friend of mine is a Norwegian in the US. He told me all the ambitious people in Norway scheme t…

No idea why you are downvoted other than downvoters having different political opinions that ignore facts.

What is being ignored is basic macroeconomics such as the Theory of Comparative Advantage which states that the net benefit to countries is the specialization in the production of certain types of goods and subsequent trade with each other instead of each country trying to produce everything domestically.

This is literally the system the US built since WWII and what globalization is all about after the Iron Curtain fell.

Of course, the US being at the center of all this trade as the military guardian of naval trade routes and financier of specialized production capabilities all across the globe.

It was and still is a smart as hell play.

But that's exactly why anyone hitting on any one part of that web of trade as being irrelevant is so... unimaginative: The fact is that it's NOT a zero sum game, but a system where everyone benefits if trade happens.

There are some EU companies that can produce tech in some domains without much or any competition in the US (or think of semiconductors of Taiwan) and the same is true for companies in the US.

This is literally Econ 101.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#380

Post by Jochim »

crazygringo wrote: post #88
jdiez17 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This decision, as I understand it, renders large swathes of tech service revenue models untenable. To be honest, good riddance. If it is no longer possible to offer users a "free" service in exchange for extremely invasive spying and psychological manipulation (without explicit consent [0]), it forces companies to 1) innovate in order to offer such services for a sustainable price, and 2) encourages competition fro…

But why do you think legislation should be the one forcing that choice on everyone, rather than the market allowing consumers to choose? The issue isn't what we personally like or prefer for ourselves -- it's more about when we think it's legitimate to take away the right of businesses to experiment with business models, and of consumers to be free to enter into the tradeoffs they prefer. Why shouldn't a consumer be…

Let's also have the market allow consumers to decide how much poison they're willing to consume in their food. After all, consumers will be free to make the choice between poisoned and unadulterated food.

Some people are starving, allowing businesses to bulk their products with poisonous substances will offer much more affordable food to those people. What's the moral basis for taking away that choice?

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