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Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

mattbruenig.com

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Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#371

Post by jrochkind1 »

saltcured wrote: post #348
jrochkind1 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, while I understand what you mean about where the actual energy goes, my understanding of how the costs are accounted are that there isn't any separate metering for "electricity out" vs "electricity in". The Solar out actually runs your meter backwards, so does actually reduce the amount the meter shows you owing to charge you at the retail rate. There is no metering present to make it possible to charge you for t…

With PG&E, we have networked meters that report fine-grained usage in order to support the newly standard time-of-use rate plan. It is not an average over a metering period like a month but able to resolve usage at different hours of the day. Even my bill shows peak and off-peak usage as daily bar graphs, and I think I can login to see more fine-grained data at the power company website if I wanted to. But I agree wi…

For home solar power, does your PG&E metering meter "power generated" separately from "power consumed"? I'm not sure if that's what you're saying or not.

Do you have details on how home solar is or will be metered in California, with regard to credits for power generated, and if it will be different depending on whether it's "net negative" or not?

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#372

Post by mesarvagya »

bushbaba wrote: post #13

I paid ~15k to install solar in 2019. After tax rebates it was ~11k. I’m generating ~12MWh per year. My break even period is less than 5 years. I’m based out of California, and generate excess energy. My electric bill is now just ~$100/year.

~12MWh or ~12KWh ?

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#373

Post by FartyMcFarter »

dpierce9 wrote: post #350
praxulus wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Net metering just doesn't make sense though. Everyone who wants to rely on the grid for power availability ought to pay for grid upkeep costs. Net metering would make sense if it came on top of a baseline "connectivity fee" that covered grid maintenance, but that's not the current policy, would likely be politically infeasible, and would hurt rooftop solar customers financially anyway. Subsidizing solar is a perfectl…

Net metering means utilities sell the power your system produces at full price to your neighbor. They pocket the avoided cost of producing and delivering that power (and during price spikes the cost of fuel can be higher than the value of producing power). Net metering does create stranded assets if everyone does it. But not everyone does. Further, the idea that the utility gains NO benefit from net metering is wrong…

Net metering doesn't make sense for a simple reason:

- when you use power, the grid is forced to produce it for you at that specific moment.

- on the other hand, solar panels produce energy at random times, regardless of whether it's needed or not.

Net metering forces symmetric pricing into a fundamentally asymmetric situation, which is not scalable.

You could think of similar asymmetries in other contexts where the unfairness is obvious. Imagine making a deal with a restaurant for them to deliver pizzas to you whenever you order them, and in exchange you'll give them back the same number of pizzas at a time of your choosing (or at random times). This is obviously not a fair deal for the restaurant.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#374

Post by K0balt »

praxulus wrote: post #144
hbarka wrote: post #109

Assuming you are grid-tied, the reduction of electric bills is predicated on net metering, where the utility company gives you (ideally) 1-for-1 credit for the electricity you produce. In California, this was called NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0. Every few years the California utilities lobby the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to chip away at the NEM program. This year the PUC voted unanimously to cut net energy metering an…

Net metering just doesn't make sense though. Everyone who wants to rely on the grid for power availability ought to pay for grid upkeep costs. Net metering would make sense if it came on top of a baseline "connectivity fee" that covered grid maintenance, but that's not the current policy, would likely be politically infeasible, and would hurt rooftop solar customers financially anyway. Subsidizing solar is a perfectl…

Isn’t there a base charge though? In my home town it’s around 25 dollars a month just to be hooked up whether you use anything or not.

What would seem logical to me would be a base charge, they net meter you to zero, but then you sell power at the wholesaler rate. If that wipes out your connect charge you still have them the value that they would have paid for the power you made.

Maybe the base charge would have to be higher for net metered houses, it might have some subsidy built into it based on expectations of selling power to the client.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#375

Post by mixmastamyk »

mrits wrote: post #44
jackmott42 wrote: post #17

My parents had panels installed on their house, it is a large single story house in Austin, Texas, which is pretty ideal (more surface area for panels, less volume inside vs two story). No trees in the way either. They haven't had to pay anything for electricity yet. And that is with an EV charging in the garage. We have panels on our roof, a two story house, also in Austin Texas, not so lucky as my parents. With the…

In Austin I'd like to see some studies on solar vs tree coverage. My empirical evidence would suggest that great tree coverage alone keep the inside livable on 100f+ summer days. On my house without trees I could barely keep some of the rooms cool.

Awnings are a cheaper alternative which can block direct sun into windows, making a huge difference in room temp.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#376

Post by fleddr »

I wonder what causes this high electricity use. Not because it's any of my business, it's just genuine curiosity.

He never reveals actual use, only savings. Still, at 0.25$ per kwh charged and an average monthly saving of 210$, we can work out that 860 kwh/month was saved, which amounts to 10,320 kwh per year. Actual use may be (far) higher, but we don't know.

Just these savings alone is triple my total electricity consumption (in the Netherlands) in a fairly similar weather pattern. And I'm not exactly frugal with electricity: big TV, washer, dryer, powerful oven, multiple PCs, and even a few small power hungry electrical heaters (due to very high gas prices).

I'm not exactly projecting a personal situation. Our government has established that median/typical use of a dutch household is 2,900 kwh/year in order to qualify for the new price ceiling, a temporary measure to keep energy affordable.

So here we're talking about 3 times more than an above average consumer (me), and what might be a factor of 4-6 more than our median. Yet the person is unlikely to live in a mansion as he can't afford to pay for the panels in cash. I don't mean that in a judgemental way.

Large scale permanent electrical heating/cooling in every room? EV car? What would cause such enormous usage?

Again, I don't ask this to justify usage, only to understand it.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#377

Post by kleton »

fleddr wrote: post #376

I wonder what causes this high electricity use. Not because it's any of my business, it's just genuine curiosity. He never reveals actual use, only savings. Still, at 0.25$ per kwh charged and an average monthly saving of 210$, we can work out that 860 kwh/month was saved, which amounts to 10,320 kwh per year. Actual use may be (far) higher, but we don't know. Just these savings alone is triple my total electricity c…

Could be electric car(s) and longish daily commutes

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#378

Post by K0balt »

We aren’t currently grid tied (we may eventually put in a line to reduce sun-drought generator set use, but at about 100 hours a year it’s kinda a tough sell)

Our little solar plant operates a small coffee plantation, 4 houses, 8 cabins, and several outbuildings , parks, and community spaces. When we do tie in we probably won’t sell power or do net metering. Instead we focus on robotic or mechanised industry where we can generate saleable goods using the excess power. (Computing power, 3d printing, dry ice manufacturing, foamed concrete block manufacturing, etc)

We also manage our utility loads like bullk water production and large scale refrigeration so that they occur during excess production periods and are normally suspended while we are operating on stored power. I’m thinking of implementing an anydrous ammonia plant and distribution system so that we can store more energy useful in air conditioning and refrigeration, which are some of our largest loads. It’s getting hard to find ways to store energy that work out cheaper than just buying more batteries though.

I’m really stoked about LiTo batteries coming down in price eventually (or similar tech not yet released) because they last 30 years + / 30,000 cycles…. And they can take a charge at a ridiculous rate, which solves other challenges.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#379

Post by kenchan »

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #357
JanisErdmanis wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an insane number. 25 solar panels + 9 kW inverter + bindings and wires would result in around 8000$.

Seemed crazy to me too. If it had been $8k plus battery costs I would have done it.

That's unfortunate. I got my 8.25KW system + Powerwall installed through Tesla for ~$26K in 2021. Just got my 26% tax credit this year. Also added a Tesla Model 3 in 2021 to complete the Tesla Ecosystem. Truly a dream come true.

My loan payments are less than $140/mo and I plan to completely pay off the system in the next year or so. Living off the sun is great.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#380

Post by Armisael16 »

fleddr wrote: post #376

I wonder what causes this high electricity use. Not because it's any of my business, it's just genuine curiosity. He never reveals actual use, only savings. Still, at 0.25$ per kwh charged and an average monthly saving of 210$, we can work out that 860 kwh/month was saved, which amounts to 10,320 kwh per year. Actual use may be (far) higher, but we don't know. Just these savings alone is triple my total electricity c…

The average New Englander uses between 567 kWh/month and 711 kWh/month (different values for different states - areas farther south generally use more).

The answer is probably that you live 5-10 degrees north of him and don’t use as much air conditioning.

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