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Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

tutanota.com

371–380 of 409 posts

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#371

I do not know how to react about this. On one side I prefer my private information staying private. On the other I use free services like Google, YouTube, Facebook all the time. They make money selling our data, on the other, the fact that it is free for everyone is the democratization of the access to information. I suspect that even a subscription of $1 / month will push away more than half of the users for these s…

I don't think it is quite that they make money selling data--they are selling ad impressions targeted with the data.

They are selling manipulation, spam, and sometimes fraud and enablement of criminal activity based on that data.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#372
post #360
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This makes it very difficult to comply. It is really not hard at all to comply with GDPR. Don't collect private informations you don't need, and don't share them. Now what's hard is to build a system that complies with GDPR's letter _and_ breaks GDPR's intent. And you know what? That's intended.

Can you define "private informations" and "need" in unambiguous ways, please? In my experience it's shockingly hard to do so once you get beyond the basics. Even when you have clear legal obligations to collect a bunch of private data, you still have to figure what reasonable measures to protect it are. What's a reasonable measure when you're obligated to keep seven years of financial records about your customers in…

I’m not sure what you mean with your second point. A legal need to collect and process personal data is a valid GDPR basis. You don’t need to get consent there.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#373

Lack of fine-grained tracking makes it hard for small companies to target niche audiences. It tends to favor big brands who can do TV advertising or other highly non-targeted advertising. There was a point in the early 2010s were small consumer brands could break through the noise for cheap and find their audience. With the GDPR and the subsequent fall of facebook ads that era is sadly coming to an end.

I find it insane how many people on this thread are accepting/defending the fact that advertising must be a persistent thing in our lives (including in inappropriate places such as personal communication tools) and that people must keep buying things (otherwise what would be the objective of said advertising?).

If targeted advertising benefits the user, they will opt-in (GDPR doesn’t outright outlaw it, it just requires informed consent). If you are having an existential crisis about people having this choice then maybe it’s time to recognise that you’ve always been a parasite that didn’t actually provide any value to users?

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#374

So what will they do instead? Put in a checkbox that you have to agree to if you want to use the service? Maybe offer a version specific to people who check that box which costs a few bucks a month?

That would be illegal as per the GDPR - you can’t force consent by withholding service.

They have no choice but to stop ad targeting based on personal data and instead only use publicly available data (public actions the user takes on the platform such as liking a page, commenting, etc) unless the user explicitly consents to their personal data being used for ad targeting.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#375
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok Technology Limited, Ireland, will absolutely care if the Irish DPA sends a strongly worded letter.

Big "if". The Irish DPA is about as useful as a marzipan dildo due to being chronically underfunded.

Calling them chronically underfunded is very charitable. Corrupt would be a more accurate term considering they’ve privately collaborated with Facebook on ways to effectively bypass the regulation they’re supposed to be enforcing, in disagreement with most other DPAs.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#376

Please turn on the great europa firewall! We all know you want to. Block facebook for illegal tracking, block twitter for illegal speech. Come give us the internet you think we deserve.

An internet without advertising and spyware is something I’d gladly volunteer for.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#377
post #122

No one's who's done business selling to consumers is cheering about this. What exactly is gained for the society when a business has to show bike ads to basketball enthusiasts?

A lot of us around here seem to live perfectly fine despite effectively seeing zero advertising with a combination of ad blockers and avoiding ad-supported services so I’m wondering why do you think advertising is an essential concept that needs to be preserved and defended?

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#378
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once went to a party and a friend of mine brought a new girl he was dating. First time I met her. We did no digital communication that evening. Next day Facebook was recommending her as a friend. I do have FB Messenger and Whatsapp on my phone. Still that's creepy.

Maybe it was based on your proximity?

Of course. Still creepy.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#379

This is a crazy way of making laws, IMO. To recap: a law was put in place 5 years ago that said if you get consent you can basically use data in any way, with some very vague and general language about how consent can be gathered and what it means. Meanwhile, Facebook has invested billions of dollars in building and developing a platform according to their fair reading of that law. Then, some random guy says he doesn…

> very vague and general language about how consent can be gathered

The language Art. 7 (https://gdpr-info.eu/art-7-gdpr/) may not be clear enough, but check out the recitals.

Unless you're actively trying to skirt the edge (in which case you shouldn't act surprised if you find yourself on the wrong side of it), it's pretty clear.

However, I think this article is slightly missing the point, as is your conclusion. (https://noyb.eu/en/noyb-win-personalized-ads-facebook-instag... explains this a bit better.)

Facebook wasn't trying to get consent through the fine print (that would be very obviously illegal). https://edpb.europa.eu/news/news/2022/edpb-adopts-art-65-dis... says that the decision "settles ... the question of whether or not the processing of personal data for the performance of a contract is a suitable legal basis for behavioural advertising".

Under GDPR, you need to have a valid legal basis for any data processing. This can be a) consent (which Facebook was not getting, nor claiming to get), b) doing only what's necessary for the performance of a contract, (some other things), and f) legitimate interests.

Consent is the easiest: When you get it (properly), as you said, you can basically use data in any way. But getting consent properly means actually getting consent, not tricking, annoying or forcing the user into saying yes when they don't want to. Ad platforms tend to either try to claim consent without actually getting it in a valid way (because, surprise, most people don't want this), or they reach for the other justifications.

While the advertising industry is trying to push to justify legitimate interest, anyone who has read the official EU interpretations (e.g. https://edpb.europa.eu/sites/default/files/consultation/edpb... - page 16 point 50, referencing Page 47 in https://web.archive.org/web/20220305192156/https://ec.europa...) would plainly see that you cannot use that to justify the kind of tracking that these ad networks do.

I suspect Facebook has realized this because otherwise they would have claimed Legitimate Interest. Instead, they claimed that processing the personal data is "necessary for the performance of a contract". That is obvious bullshit, and the EDPB has now explicitly confirmed this.

So I would recap it differently:

- A law was put in place 5 years ago to protect people from exactly the kind of behavior Facebook wanted to engage in (intrusive tracking, wholesale collection of personal data).

- Facebook has made a massive profit by violating the law, claiming to be merely skirting it, relying on creative interpretations that they must have known were "creative".

- They have now been told that their creative interpretations are wrong and that they need to actually follow the law. (They will likely also have to pay a fine that is a fraction of the profit they made from violating the law.)

- They can still do the thing they want, they'll just need to actually get voluntary user consent. Which they probably will not get in many ways, in particular because they're known for abusing the users and illegally misusing their data (see above).

I agree that it's inefficient that they were allowed to do this for 5 years before being told to stop, but I don't think that's unfair to Facebook, to Facebook's detriment, or because Facebook couldn't have known. It's because Facebook correctly concluded that they will get away with, and profit from, violating the law until caught and stopped.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#380
post #58

Well, active consent has been seen before with cookie banners. Let's see how long it takes before every time you open Instagram you get a prompt like: "I allow not not omitting the usage of tracking"

Cookie banners that make refusing harder than accepting are not GDPR compliant I think.

Correct, but the lack of enforcement means almost everyone does it, almost everyone gets away with it, and the ones that see everyone else doing it and getting away with it feel compelled doing the same...
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