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Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

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Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#371

Post by 01acheru »

denton-scratch wrote: post #304
01acheru wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on where you live, at least in Europe most people would find the word inappropriate. For us here "disobedience" or something alike would be a better term.

Insubordination is an english word, and it is written into employment law as grounds for immediate dismissal. "Disobedience" isn't. Basically, if you take a paid job, you subordinate yourself to your boss.

> The resident of Diessen, Noord-Brabant, was hired by the the Rijswijk branch of Chetu Inc.

We are talking about a Danish person hired by an European company. I fail to see the point of your comment.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#372

Post by sverhagen »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #316
jupp0r wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, but the person terminated would probably have some pretty good arguments in a US based lawsuit. More money to be awarded by the court in case he wins too.

I can't imagine what they would sue for in a US court. Most states are at will and refusal to comply with company policy and procedures is a one-way ticket out

Most states are at will, but he wasn't employed in "most states", now was he?

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#373

Post by inopinatus »

mhuffman wrote: post #144
inopinatus wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not higher. the graph is topologically unchanged if you draw it with the CEO at the bottom, and so on. don’t be hoodwinked by bad analogies, or the arbitrary demands of insecure narcissists

Well, I mean your boss can fire you from the company but you can not fire your boss from the company. So in that sense they are "superior".

Sorry, but no. That is a falsifiable statement in just about every respect and possible interpretation. The implied assumptions about everything from employment law to the notion that in all work environments everyone has a “boss”, let alone the meaning of that term, are far from universal.

The world just isn’t that limited, thankfully.

Tip: think about why you had to put “superior” in quotes.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#374

Post by s1artibartfast »

sverhagen wrote: post #372
s1artibartfast wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine what they would sue for in a US court. Most states are at will and refusal to comply with company policy and procedures is a one-way ticket out

Most states are at will, but he wasn't employed in "most states", now was he?

Juppor is talking about suing in Florida courts. Florida is absolutely at will. He may be able to sue to collect a foreign court judgement instead, but it is notoriously difficult to collect judgments, even us Court judgments, if the other party stonewalls you

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#375

Post by stefan_ »

galangalalgol wrote: post #235
O__________O wrote: post #174

From Glassdoor for related employer: https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Chetu-Reviews-E231082.htm >> Review: “You'll discover during training week that the the company will watch over you all day, even long tenured employees are watched via their WebCam.” >> “Glassdoor Alert: Attempt to Inflate Reviews — We have evidence that someone has taken steps to artificially inflate the rating for this employer with positive re…

Between this, and them shuttering any official EU accounts or presence after the award, I really foubt they will pay the award, and it seems unlikely they were contributing or collecting any taxes related to the employment.

This is an employment action. There is a good chance it pierces the corporate veil. So yes, they can avoid paying, if their directors never want to enter the EU again.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#376

Post by bigfudge »

numpad0 wrote: post #355
skeeter2020 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> it removes some of the stigma Stigma around being on a corrective performance plan should be removed?

punishment is for reinforcement. Our brains are just not sophisticated enough to regularly reevaluate forecasts and stop the chain of events, but do at most trigger on known initial condition, trace and recreate the precedents all the way through to the pain, then just exit with an exit code.

This post reminds me of the category of "not even wrong". Apart from anything else, reward is a _much_ more effective stimulus for learning than punishment.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#377

Post by anigbrowl »

The CEO of this company seems very deep into 'hype capitalism' - all his recent writing is about the metaverse, NFTs etc. The fact that the Dutch subsidiary of this company tried to de-register itself within days of firing the employee suggests to me that its business models are extractive rather than productive.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#378

Post by gnicholas »

CameronNemo wrote: post #243
jupp0r wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, but the person terminated would probably have some pretty good arguments in a US based lawsuit. More money to be awarded by the court in case he wins too.

Way more expensive legal fees though, and a much slower "justice" system. In the Netherlands court, the legal fees were sub 1k, and the decision happened less than 2 months from the filing.

How can the legal fees be less than a thousand dollars? It would take at least a few hours to research the law and write a brief, let alone prepare for court and make an appearance. Even if a lawyer was paid only $150/hr, it seems hard to come in under $1k.

Regardless, it would certainly be much more expensive in the US, where decent lawyers are hundreds or thousands an hour.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#379

Post by gnicholas »

stefan_ wrote: post #375
galangalalgol wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Between this, and them shuttering any official EU accounts or presence after the award, I really foubt they will pay the award, and it seems unlikely they were contributing or collecting any taxes related to the employment.

This is an employment action. There is a good chance it pierces the corporate veil. So yes, they can avoid paying, if their directors never want to enter the EU again.

Why would this pierce the veil? That’s a pretty high bar, and I don’t remember learning that employment actions are much more likely to satisfy the requirements.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#380

Post by anigbrowl »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #374
sverhagen wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most states are at will, but he wasn't employed in "most states", now was he?

Juppor is talking about suing in Florida courts. Florida is absolutely at will. He may be able to sue to collect a foreign court judgement instead, but it is notoriously difficult to collect judgments, even us Court judgments, if the other party stonewalls you

That's not how choice of law works. If you are operating a business in jurisdiction A and open a branch in jurisdiction B, you have a nexus to jurisdiction B and can't say your branch exists under the legal umbrella of jurisdiction A. Of course, you can assert that your customer and employment contracts are under the law of jurisdiction A, but such assertions don't magically trump statutory law. Contractual provisions can often be dismissed as unenforceable.
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