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I don’t believe in sprints

robinrendle.com

371–380 of 459 posts

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#371
post #6

This is nothing but a bad strawman from start to finish. Sprints are not made to help organize things, they're a tool to get more predictable deliveries. Their very short nature forces participants to construct tasks that are easier to estimate and therefore complete on time with a higher probability. This certainly adds overhead to an idealised scenario where people take the shortest reasonble route often enough and…

It's all about how everything is implemented. I've worked in places where sprints were hard deadlines and there was no acceptable reason for missing said deadlines. We worked 12-15 hour days, including working weekends to try and meet our release schedules. Run into a blocker? Too bad, should have seen it coming during our scrum meetings and follow-up refinements. We engineers had two business analysts, a scrum maste…

> Run into a blocker? Too bad, should have seen it coming during our scrum meetings and follow-up refinements.

One of the things that usually happen when they push and push and push for some feature to get rolled out in the next quarter is that it often turns out to be a gigantic flop. Engineers are forced to spend hours they can't get back at the whim of management for something that was a complete and utter failure. I could imagine few things more demoralizing than this.

Agile is really meant to be about self organizing teams that take ownership of their own work and deliveries. The scrum master and product owner are just there to facilitate that.

When a team hits a blocker on a tight schedule -- particularly across third party teams, it's up to the management to figure out a solution -- even if it means gasp delaying the release by one sprint.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#372
post #112
post #6

This is nothing but a bad strawman from start to finish. Sprints are not made to help organize things, they're a tool to get more predictable deliveries. Their very short nature forces participants to construct tasks that are easier to estimate and therefore complete on time with a higher probability. This certainly adds overhead to an idealised scenario where people take the shortest reasonble route often enough and…

And because you have sprints, you create lots and lots of small tasks, then focus on them, and then team members forget the "big picture" of how everything should fit together in the end (if they were ever aware of it). And when all of those small tasks are done, you notice that the sum of all those parts is not what you set out to build initially, and you need more time to shape it into something that resembles what…

> forget the "big picture"

Even if they remember the big picture, the tyranny of the sprint deadlines make it impossible to take the big picture into account - whatever gets the task done faster, no matter whether or not it creates problems down the line.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#373
post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With sprints, the work of developer z would get broken up in more manageable chunks. The backend project would be very high risk otherwise. More in general, coordinating between related but separate projects is a hard problem in software engineering, and it's orthogonal to whether you use sprints, kanban, waterfall or whatever methodology.

The work is to read and synthesize a 10k+ smorgasbord, how do you break that into 2 week sprints?

Agile means everything is up for being changed as makes the most sense, so in the (rare) event that you really have a task with 0 sensible deliverables you would indeed likely do longer sprints or no sprints. If that's not mutable because of some management mandate your not really doing Scrum, your doing "process inspired by Scrum" and saying you are doing Scrum.

That said your description of "read and synthesize a 10k+ smorgasbord" is nowhere near descriptive enough to answer your question or have any kind of estimate on how easy/hard this work is. It could be anything from I'll have it done in a couple hours this afternoon to a year long effort by multiple devs.

The best I can say is in the real world it's pretty rare to have a huge task that doesn't have sensible subtasks. In the case of ingesting a large mess of data like you are describing this could mean identifying and ingesting the data from system X, or processing event Y. These are steps the developers is going to go through anyway, and in many cases are even going to be deployable and useful on their own! Even if they aren't individually deployable they represent useful landmarks allowing for the understanding how work is progressing, readjusting estimates as necessary, and determining if the entire design needs to be reconsidered due to violated assumptions.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#374
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d go further, sprints are defensive for devs. Don’t bother me or tell me to do something new during a sprint. I’m doing the work I said I’d do, leave me alone until the sprint is overs.

As a senior dev I hate this. Of course I'm going to drop everything, if what I do stops making sense on an org level. Why would I do anything else.

> Why would I do anything else

Because you'll get fired if you don't...?

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#375
post #6

This is nothing but a bad strawman from start to finish. Sprints are not made to help organize things, they're a tool to get more predictable deliveries. Their very short nature forces participants to construct tasks that are easier to estimate and therefore complete on time with a higher probability. This certainly adds overhead to an idealised scenario where people take the shortest reasonble route often enough and…

Why do we need predictable deliveries? Let’s boil this down to first principles. Nothing about building software, especially innovative software is predictable.

OP doesn't care about building software (innovative or otherwise). He cares about getting his quarterly bonus, which is based off of meeting deadlines, because that's what can be easily measured. Delivering a quality product is much harder to measure.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many tickets were also overestimated! They just don't stick out as a problem since they close early and make the sprint look good. Naturally, the ones that don't close are the ones that are underestimated! If you overestimate everything then you end up idle at end of sprint & picking backlog items to bring in, so then product wants to put more points/stories into next sprint. The system is seemingly designed to produ…

This folds in with the mantra of "Do NOT think about blockers and interruptions when estimating your story points, only think about the task in a vacuum" ... and then not looking at blockers and interruptions when judging your velocity and results, either. The system is to teach everyone how to lie and juke the system. It feels awful working in most sprint-based environments. Because even when you're highly productiv…

Yup the other stupid thing that kept happening was sizing the work to fit the model. Medium sized tickets were least controversial in 3 hour backlog refinement meetings. Therefore every ticket began to ranked at that level. Which then beget us chopping up anything larger into these medium sized tickets, and avoiding creating any too-small tickets.

So instead of "ticket: make pasta for dinner" it was like "ticket 1: purchase prego & pasta from instacart" , "ticket 2: boil water & get out the jar opener", "ticket 3: cook the pasta and sauce", "ticket 4: place the meal and serve".

Zero chance all 4 finished in the sprint, in fact they were rarely even all planned for same sprint.

It became impossible to express to users what they were getting at the end of each sprint. "OK, so you've.. purchased ingredients, when do I get to eat?"

This happened with multiple product managers, agile coaches and tech leads so it wasn't just a single person forcing stupidity on the process..

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> backlogs are by far just a list of the things you wont do Scrum even has a ceremony for fixing this: backlog refinement.

I have never been in a company that was able to deal with backlog. Albeit I have not worked at all companies, there's got to be some that successfully deal with backlog... but how many? Is Scrum a solution that really works, or merely a great concept? I agree with and swear by the agile manifesto (it's really amazing) but IMHO, all of its byproduct methodologies fall short in the real world, with no exception.

You can't fix organisational issues with any process, but if people agree to do it, it's pretty good. And it has a retro in it, which is the most important meeting, where you can change the process to something that suits your needs better.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#379

I want to see the code produced by this non-system; and to learn its longevity, particularly beyond when key early contributors have left. I want to see the applications produced by that code and to learn the size of the teams, departments and companies around the products. This article carries little weight without some of that context. There's no meat to this article, just a rant about some management style the aut…

What proponents of agile have a tendency to do is take anything effective and call it "agile". I've literally had people say "you're doing agile even if you don't know it!". You can't nail them down, it's always "oh that works? yeah, that's agile. Oh, that doesn't work? you're not really doing agile". --- And now let me say, I don't like scrum because it's a shitty way to write software. There's really only 2 ideas i…

> That's it. The rest don't matter and are often actively harmful.

Oh, ok. It's a terminology thing. We're actually in agreement. It was very hard to see that from the article because it's only negative.

> The problem is creating these roles puts barriers between people. It prevents developers from developing an understanding of what they're actually doing. None of these roles are useful outside of QA and business analyst, and even the BA role can be done by developers if they have communication skills. All a BA is going to do is ask questions of the business.

Small-a agile prescribes no roles at all, so I can't say whether a BA would be useful or not. Scrum (which is the Big-A Agile I have most experience with) also doesn't define a BA role and broadly agrees with you: get the devs doing that work. It also doesn't make any distinction between "designer", "architect", "copywriter" or "engineer". They're all "developers" in Scrum, as far as I understand it from the course I did, and repeatedly re-reading the guide. Neither agile, nor Scrum talk about story points, JIRA, user stories. Scrum recommends you estimate, so that you can fit things into a sprint (so it can be released), and so you can measure your team's own sense of sizing. Those tools (story points, etc) are extras, often prescribed by businesses that aren't as agile as they'd like to to believe... but can still be useful so long as they're used well. Use them as guides, signals for internal team use, not to share outside the team, not to be held accountable. That's what the planning + review are for. Those are your accountability points.

Honestly, I think the bigger problem with trying to use Scrum is continuous integration. If you're releasing often, faster than your sprint cadence, you're bound to come unstuck with your sprints and they'll feel like a hinderance. I'm not saying "avoid CI", I'm saying "if you use CI, and you should, modify your definitions a bit, find a way of working with the accountability system; share that organisational burden with the wider company".

One problem with agile I've seen is that business priorities often change before work can be completed. You _should_ respond to the changing environment (e.g. new compliance, new customers etc), but it can be very very distracting when you have longer-form projects to complete.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all about how everything is implemented. I've worked in places where sprints were hard deadlines and there was no acceptable reason for missing said deadlines. We worked 12-15 hour days, including working weekends to try and meet our release schedules. Run into a blocker? Too bad, should have seen it coming during our scrum meetings and follow-up refinements. We engineers had two business analysts, a scrum maste…

This sounds like an organizational failure rather than sprint/agile/scrum. It works beautifully when lead in/by tech teams.

> It works beautifully when lead in/by tech teams.

What software development methodology does not work well under these circumstances?

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