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German digital signage ban prompts confusion

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Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#371

Post by _ph_ »

hbossy wrote: post #285
locallost wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The electricity you don't spend is electricity you don't need to produce. We don't really need electricity, we need to do useful stuff with it. Doing laundry with electricity is useful, as is having a computer network. Are massive glowing screens in the middle of the night useful? That would be a very long discussion, but I say no because any local usefulness is outweighed by their negative impact overall. Saving ele…

Actually they are as you need to maintain some base load on a grid.

No, only if your grid is composed of "slow" power plants, you have to. That is why for a long time, all night-time energy usage was encouraged, to raise the base load. Ironically the outcome is used as an argument against renewables as it "but what about the base load"? :p

And if not completely dominated by slow power plants, there is always enough load on the grid to keep it stable. Especially in a day and age where there is a lot of storage, which can absorb some excess power production.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#372

Post by dontlaugh »

kikokikokiko wrote: post #370
dontlaugh wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German workers did all that, while they themselves are exploited by German capitalists. The same capitalists then extended their exploitation to other countries, where they could get away with even worse. I recommend you read Lenin's Imperialism. I'm from a poor country, still exploited by Germany, Austria, France, Britain, Italy, Hungary, the US, etc. My country used to have collective control over resources and ind…

It was "destroyed" by whom really? I thought the collective control of "the means of production" was such an amazing thing that it could never lead to the "destruction" of a society that engages in it, who would have imagined. I'm also from a poor country, but at least down here the powers that control everything weren't dumb enough to let this place become a collectivized wasteland. Being poor is alright, at least h…

Most countries actually grew tremendously with collectivisation. My country got electrified, food production was vastly increased, industry was developed, large numbers of homes were built, etc. It's just that they started from very poor in the first place and developed in spite of foreign aggression by much richer countries.

Rich countries force poor countries to do things all the time. There's propaganda, coups, sanctions or even outright invasion. Some countries manage to resist, like Vietnam. Others don't, like Eastern Europe or Libya.

The problem isn't German workers. The problem is the economic system which subjugates workers in general and workers in poor countries in particular.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#373

Post by lament76 »

martin_a wrote: post #299
peaslock wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So 0.005% at 560 TWh total consumption.

Well, in that case we shouldn't improve anything as long as children are starving to death in this world. That should be our only and biggest "bug" to fix. Feel free to recommend another one, but we'll pause all other improvements meanwhile. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

How about not jeopardizing the economy by ever more constraints and instead investing in better energy technology?

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#374

Post by ben_w »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #297
bluescrn wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home server PC at around 100W. That adds a surprising amount, on it's own that's getting close to 1000KWh to run for a year. And then there's the main PC setup, running maybe 12hrs a day (inc. WFH). And that was build for gaming, so it's quite power-hungry, especially when the GPU is kept busy, working on Unity projects.

But on average ? Does the average person have a home server? A desktop PC? I don't know any non-techy person who isn't using a laptop exclusively, and then pretty rarely, as most things nowadays happen on the smart phone. AC is non-existent in Germany. So I'm really curious. I have a 24/7 Homeserver and laptop, and am at ~1200kwh a year.

I'd agree normal people don't have those things, but also add that things not mentioned — e.g. TVs, ovens, and fridge/freezers — will add up. At such a low average, even lighting will contribute non-negligibly.

Two questions though: how common are TVs in Germany? And how common is electric hot water for showers/baths? My sample size is pretty small (and mostly limited to Berlin).

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#375

Post by kikokikokiko »

dontlaugh wrote: post #372
kikokikokiko wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was "destroyed" by whom really? I thought the collective control of "the means of production" was such an amazing thing that it could never lead to the "destruction" of a society that engages in it, who would have imagined. I'm also from a poor country, but at least down here the powers that control everything weren't dumb enough to let this place become a collectivized wasteland. Being poor is alright, at least h…

Most countries actually grew tremendously with collectivisation. My country got electrified, food production was vastly increased, industry was developed, large numbers of homes were built, etc. It's just that they started from very poor in the first place and developed in spite of foreign aggression by much richer countries. Rich countries force poor countries to do things all the time. There's propaganda, coups, sa…

So who destroyed your country in 89? Maybe it was the economic system that subjugated the workers? I'm lost here. And I'm done, discussing politics/economics on the internet is the dumbest thing anyone can do, every 2 or 3 years I make this mistake. Have a nice life.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#376

Post by iforgotpassword »

ben_w wrote: post #374
iforgotpassword wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But on average ? Does the average person have a home server? A desktop PC? I don't know any non-techy person who isn't using a laptop exclusively, and then pretty rarely, as most things nowadays happen on the smart phone. AC is non-existent in Germany. So I'm really curious. I have a 24/7 Homeserver and laptop, and am at ~1200kwh a year.

I'd agree normal people don't have those things, but also add that things not mentioned — e.g. TVs, ovens, and fridge/freezers — will add up. At such a low average, even lighting will contribute non-negligibly. Two questions though: how common are TVs in Germany? And how common is electric hot water for showers/baths? My sample size is pretty small (and mostly limited to Berlin).

I'd say TVs are still the norm, my social circle is 30~50 and o think everyone got one, for streaming mostly. As for the older generation it's also still a thing you just need to have. As for sizes, I think they've also increased over the last decade or two, but at least in the cities if you're limited to a smaller place I think people go for 40 rather than 50 inches. Can't really speak for the younger generations, but I feel they're more comfortable watching stuff on their phones, college students probably also due to financial or space reasons.

Hot water mostly comes from central heating with gas, some homes in my city have district heating. At least up until now, electric heating, be it for water or the whole apartment was way to expensive so that you'd only consider that if you really have no other choice, for example, an old building from 100+ years ago with retrofitted central heating might have an electric water heater for the kitchens as they only did the bathrooms.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#377

Post by tmnvdb »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #257
odshoifsdhfs wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't about the absolute numbers (even though they aren't 'good' for Germany specially if you remove micro/extreme poor states), is the 'holier than thou' attitude from Germans. It's like an obese person going to the morbidly obese: 'here we don't stuff our mouths with food like you' while having no sense that they are just in a slightly better state than the ones they are chastising.

I do not understand your argument. We do not use personal cars as often as USA or some other countries, instead relying more on public transportation and bikes - as a result, electricity costs for transportation are quite low for individual households. What's your point? That less than 25% of population do not eat healthy and this is somehow relevant to the conversation?

You compare yourself to the most car-dependent and obese OECD country and then congratulate yourself, completely missing that Germany is very car-dependent and obese, and it's not exactly improving.

Also would not brag about public transport, - most of your rich neighbours do better.

Chain smoker laughing at a lung patient.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#378

Post by lm28469 »

rr808 wrote: post #298
morsch wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average power usage for a 1 person household in Germany is 1300 kwh/year (roughly, numbers vary, but not to a degree that it matters). That's about 150W sustained. So 1500W for a large sign, that's like 150 high power LED light bulbs, I guess that checks out. Anything that reduces ads in the public sphere is fine by me.

> 1300 kwh/year Wow that is low. In most states in the South average household consumes that per month. https://www.chooseenergy.com/news/article/the-states-that-us...

> In most states in the South average household consumes that per month.

That's what happens when you live in cardboard houses in the middle of a literal desert.

In Europe more people live in better build houses or flats with centralised heating and no AC. I used 1500kwh last years while working full time from my living room and spent maybe 100 euros on heating

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#379

Post by lm28469 »

xxs wrote: post #129
morsch wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average power usage for a 1 person household in Germany is 1300 kwh/year (roughly, numbers vary, but not to a degree that it matters). That's about 150W sustained. So 1500W for a large sign, that's like 150 high power LED light bulbs, I guess that checks out. Anything that reduces ads in the public sphere is fine by me.

>1300 kwh/year this is extremely, extremely low. No heating, no cooling, no hot water, no car charging. A fridge alone tends to be over 400KW/h. Edit: polycaster listed close to 5kWh/year for 3+ household. 1person being 2k. So, extremely low estimate.

> this is extremely, extremely low. No heating, no cooling, no hot water, no car charging. A fridge alone tends to be over 400KW/h

I have a fridge and my water is heated with electricity, I still end up at ~1500kwh per year, while working from home everyday.

Electric heating and cooling is extremely inefficient and barely used in Europe.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#380

Post by ivan_gammel »

tmnvdb wrote: post #377
ivan_gammel wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not understand your argument. We do not use personal cars as often as USA or some other countries, instead relying more on public transportation and bikes - as a result, electricity costs for transportation are quite low for individual households. What's your point? That less than 25% of population do not eat healthy and this is somehow relevant to the conversation?

You compare yourself to the most car-dependent and obese OECD country and then congratulate yourself, completely missing that Germany is very car-dependent and obese, and it's not exactly improving. Also would not brag about public transport, - most of your rich neighbours do better. Chain smoker laughing at a lung patient.

I think you completely missed the point of what I was saying and replying in the middle of the thread is not helping here. Please re-read it again, your comment does not make sense. I did not congratulate myself.
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