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Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

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Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#371

Post by phatfish »

kranke155 wrote: post #365
mandmandam wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he's right. And it has been this way for a long time. The way Corbyn and Assaange were demonized and smeared ought to have made it obvious - but that's the thing about controlling the entire media landscape. Even if it ought to be obvious, there are people telling you to ignore the truth tellers, and you've nowhere to read their exposes except social media, where in fact they are likely shunted down the algorithm…

The destruction of Corbyn as an “anti semite” was an incredible act of mass psychological warfare inflicted on the British public. An incredible feat, to all those involved, respect for their skill. I’d never seen anything quite like it before I moved to the Uk.

Unfortunately the anti-semite line was easy to make stick because of his well known vocal opposition to the Israeli oppression of Palestinians. So not an incredible feat, but it was a case of corporate interests and the Tory party pushing the "emergency button" as an real Social Democrat was getting too popular and very close to becoming PM.

Also, as seems to be the fashion for left wing politicians, he has a soft spot for Russia. I think some people still think there is a Communist utopia over there, it's very strange. Not a good look recently.

I don't believe that there would have been no response from the UK to the Russian invasion if he had ended up PM, but it would have been slower and less impactful.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#372

Post by phatfish »

tailspin2019 wrote: post #370
azalemeth wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very true. The NHS has become a commissioning organisation -- it puts out a request for a service and providers bid for it. Many of these services are IT related; many of them are things like physiotherapy referral programmes. Patients may or may not know who provides their care. This is not at all how things used to be and I have noticed it get far worse of late.

As an aside, I’ve had first hand experience in a couple of those outsourced IT services and the amount of wasted money in that area alone is staggering.

Said firms are also laughably bad. A number of NHS services were taken down by a crypto-locker style attack just recently.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-62442127

The internal NHS IT services were no worse and far better value as you say.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#373

Post by daenz »

jacquesm wrote: post #367
daenz wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't want to consider the possibility of X -> if they're wrong about X it would be harmful. Where's the cycle?

In your assumption that they don't want to consider that possibility. You take your own projection as a given and then continue to argue as though it is true.

1) That's not what circular logic is. Circular logic would be if I said "they don't want to consider it because it's harmful and it's harmful because they don't want to consider it."

2) You asked me why I thought people don't want to consider that possibility, so it's pretty dishonest to now say the premise on which my opinion is based has no basis. If you were arguing in good faith, that's what you would have started with, eg: "People aren't avoiding it" not "Why do you think they are avoiding it."

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#374

Post by User23 »

keepquestioning wrote: post #296
daenz wrote: post #259

Quoted post unavailable.

I'll bite. What is the mechanism by which the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID vaccine could harm peoples health months or years down the line?

Just for an example, acute organ damage doesn’t necessarily present symptoms immediately. I knew a kid who had a viral heart infection in his teens that severely damaged it. He recovered in the sense that he could mostly live normally, but his doctor told him he’d be lucky to live past 50.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#375

Post by throwawaylinux »

ben_w wrote: post #94
thrown_22 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The left has somehow ended up as the party of the political managerial class instead of the working class, this is one of the best explanations why we're in such a weird place where the socialists are all trust fund kids who would rather have the working class arrested than talk to them.

If the (UK) left is the party of the political managerial class, what is the (UK) right? When I'm feeling particularly sarcastic I might call them the party of dilettantes, but is that apt?

https://www.independent.co.uk/independentpremium/long-reads/...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/10/starme...

I know this is brushed off or denied by the intelligentsia, and I know the ruling class (no matter what the party) never worked for the interests of the people but themselves, but nevertheless the working class is turning to conservative politics. The really sad thing is very few people on the left seem to be honestly asking why. What is their party doing so wrong that the least advantaged working class is voting for the parties traditionally associated with capital? Instead they seem happy making up feel-good stories about "the horrible uneducated racists voting against their own interest" to tell one another, and that is about the extent of their intellectual curiosity on the matter.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#376

Post by rob_c »

kergonath wrote: post #204
rob_c wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would think that but a lot of people can't see beyond its the Tories in power. We'd be better off with proportional representation but the beeb did an excellent job at mis-selling that to the masses

It is frustrating to see the country getting polarised this way. A 2-party system is not helpful to a functioning democracy. I am not a fan of fully proportional representation as it leads to government instability and ineffectiveness, but a party getting an absolute majority in Parliament whilst getting 40% of the vote is a travesty. Also, after having lived through Brexit and the successive government, the BBC is n…

Yeah have to agree with pretty much all of that. My worry is that we are defecto the 52nd state these days and we've adopted the 2 party system from across the pond since the coalition was little more than a sitting government against fox hunting, their arguably biggest achievement was placing Cameron in a position where he bailed after throwing national policy under the bus to appease his own party.

I won't pretend that Brexit hasn't been mishandled as a lot of the opposition predicted (also in news water wet), but the EU/EC has unfortunately for them shown a lot of its attitude toward Britain is as promoters had been saying.

Sorry not maeaning to derail too much.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#377

Post by rob_c »

Silverback_VII wrote: post #102

Excess death is higher in Europe in general. you can see the stats here: https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#excess-mortality What I find strange is the increase in excess death among children since April 2021.

Yeah that's not really a topic you want to look into unless you've a stiff drink to hand imo, a painful amount of I told you so style learning to made picking that apart...

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#378

Post by aprdm »

jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

Canada is having a similar issue in all provinces and no private option…

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#379

Post by rob_c »

n4r9 wrote: post #252
rob_c wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not citing evidence for that I'm showing how both sides of the political divide won't dare touch the holy cow that is the NHS. It's interesting how every time you show there's a problem with a political party everyone assumes instead of damning the system your trying to politically point score. I think the real change needs to be made in the civil service and certain powers striped from Whitehall but it'll never…

The fact that Blair helped privatise the NHS doesn't show anything about "both sides of the political divide". It just shows how right-wing Blair was.

Please stop viewing everything as a nail for your leftwing political hammer, it's not healthy in the long-term.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#380

Post by aprdm »

neilwilson wrote: post #173
rleigh wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's not what anyone wants The NHS has been turned into what is effectively a state religion in some quarters. It's untouchable. It can't be criticised. It's immune to meaningful improvement and reform at this point. Yet everyone I know who works for the NHS has a litany of stories about the inefficiency and waste. And it consumes an increasing proportion of the GDP. Eventually, something will have to give. Its b…

"I pay privately through my employer's plan, and then again for the NHS." And yet it is the private system in the UK that is taking away scarce supply from the NHS making it more vulnerable. There is a supply side limit on doctors and nurses, which means private healthcare works like the Fast Track queue at Alton Towers. All it does is allow people with money to jump the queue at the expense of everybody else. And re…

Canada doesn’t allow for private practises and it’s in a bad place
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