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What ever happened to the transhumanists?

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Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#371

I used to identify as a transhumanist and believed that technology could do no harm. I was an adolescent donning rose-colored glasses, with a burning passion for science, technology, and improvement of our species. Only after an electrical engineering degree, 10-15 years of more wisdom, and dabbling in biohacking have I realized that we really have no clue about the massive deleterious impacts that technology has on…

> I hope that it isn’t too late to try to fix what we’ve destroyed. It will be like pumping the brakes and critically thinking, while staying in a landslide (caused by you, but blame assignment will not do much at the moment). Climate change will not wait. Extinct species will not pop up back into existence. Asteroids on impact course (if any) will not stop moving for that matter. We need to run faster than ever to h…

With regards to asteroids, the question is when, not if.

The probability that none of the known or unknown space objects will ever collide with Earth until the sun exhausts it's fuel is incredibly slim.

Of course, an asteroid collision is perfectly natural.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> . Nobody is " against trans " people, whatever that means What it means is “actively seeking to eliminate trans people, including by the simple expedient of killing them by means such as prohibiting care that is proven to greatly reduce suicidality in, especially, young trans people.” And lots of people—indeed, entire state governments in the US—are “against trans people”.

> “actively seeking to eliminate trans people, Put it such extreme and dishonest way, reducing sugar in food it an attempt to eliminate obese people... No , the attribute is not the object. > indeed, entire state governments in the US—are “against trans people”. So you deny the rights of a community of people to decide what they deem legal or illegal ? All this for the personal benefit of a (literal) couple of people…

Many societies over the course of history have decided that slavery should be legal. Some still do today. I absolutely deny those communities' moral right to this decision (though I can't do much about the practical right).

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of an average citizen of the Culture always seemed terrifyingly vacuous and stagnant. 99.999% of the trillions of individuals that exist are not talented or interesting enough to produce any artistic works or scientific research (particularly compared with the vastly superior intellects of the Minds) of value so they simply amuse themselves any way they can, under the gentle care and supervision of the…

> 99.999% of the trillions of individuals that exist are not talented or interesting enough to produce any artistic works or scientific research This sadly sounds like the modern world.

No, it sounds like life in general.

99.999% of the humans in history were not talented or interesting enough to produce any artistic works or scientific research.

99.9999...% of the organisms that exist or ever existed are not special enough to produce any notable heritage. Most have not even produced a fossil. And even those who have will eventually be erased as the tectonic plate undergoes subduction.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#374

"Transhumanism" is already here, in a way. We have medications including some complex drugs, most people at least take multi-vitamins, we have surgeries and sometimes do weird stuff like transplant limbs or faces. Even simpler, we have knowledge of diet and health which lets us stay in better shape than before (though a lot of people are in worse shape due to junk food...we have access to high-protein diets and effec…

Agree. It seems like this article is just talking about trans humanism as a cultural topic that goes in and out of popularity. But real transhumanism occurring seems inevitable if technology continues to march forward. Is anyone in the year 2100 really going to be talking about genetic modification or wearables? No, they will be everywhere

I think we're going to be talking about genetic modification as long as there are people around who are able to talk. The possibilities are infinite, and the religious opposition is strong. It could very plausibly lead to us becoming a different species-- or at the other extreme, wiping ourselves out.

My parents are convinced it will lead to the Mark of the Beast, and there are millions of people who are raising their children to believe the same. Blood will be shed over this. It could easily lead to full blown war(s). The conversation is not going to be over in the year 2100 unless humanity as we know it has come to an end.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#375
post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> undergo their AGAB puberty against their will It's also weird mental gymnastics like this that people are pushing against. For anyone who is not familiar with the acronym, AGAB means "Assigned Gender At Birth", and is push back against the fact that we broadly lump all people into either the male / female camp when they are born. It can be useful when talking about gender norms, etc – which are discussions worth ha…

Quoted post unavailable.

I just realized a lot of the pro arguments for some of these newer things like trans et al are essentially dependent on gaslighting the "rest of us". E.g. having us deny basic biology and twisting it with weird re-definitions of existing terms.

I’d encourage you to check your assumptions on that realisation buddy, because it ain’t really right.

The specific terms you are using there—“gaslighting”, “deny basic biology” etc.—suggest that you’re picking up some of those views from sources that are unlikely to be all that reliable or representative of reality, and way more likely to be a bad-faith representation of extreme or minority views. So don’t form your opinions based on them.

In reality it’s pretty simple and I don’t think it seems particularly controversial:

- People are born biologically male or female, with some exceptions and variations.

- Most people also have an internal gender identity of themselves as a man or a woman, which is a bit of a fuzzy concept but seems to be something innate along the lines of sexuality.

- Most of us fit pretty neatly into one of those two binary buckets in both axes and aren’t really aware of a gender identity; everything feels fine and we get on with our lives without noticing it.

- Some of us don’t feel that way and there’s an incongruity between our gender identity and physical bodies.

- That experience can vary a lot - some people feel themselves clearly and strongly as the opposite binary gender, and others less so. Some people are aware of not having that binary gender identity at all. Some people struggle with it, accept it easily, or feel differently about it at different times.

- People will choose to deal with that incongruity in different ways. Some people will seek surgery or other medical treatment to increase their comfort in their body; others might change their name or their outward appearance.

What you describe as “a lot of the pro arguments for some of these newer things like trans et al” is really about a pressure to modernise our handling of all the stuff above, along the lines of:

- Generally de-medicalise “gender identity disorder”, accepting the stuff above as a natural aspect of human identity and sexuality rather than a malady to be cured.

- Instead of forcing people through clinical pathways to transition allow them to explore their own identity and find their own path.

- Remove the social and cultural aspects of shame and abuse faced by people, that magnify all the above struggles. Stuff like being respectful of people’s identities and trying to be generally inclusive to people who might not fit into our own personal existing notions of gender and sexuality.

There are more specific issues that attract controversy - things like fair treatment in sport and appropriate support for children and young people. But “deny basic biology”? Not a thing.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#376
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am interpreting the parent as saying before we can say something is post-human, we have to define (understand) what "human" is. If we cannot agree on what it is to be human, how can anyone be post-human? I.e. you can't define a "noun with modifier" until you define the noun.

You can differentiate a human from a dolphin ? Then you know all that is to be known about what an human is. You don't need to understand "dolphin-ness" to know that by enabling a dolphin to talk or fly you created a post-dolphin. Post/Transhumanism is not just about physical changes. Those changes , of course, will create/lead to philosophical/metaphysical questions, but no one understands transhumanism as a "branch…

The "know it when you see it" kind of argument is cognitively vacuous. You are simply creating word salad using such an argument.

A dolphin you enabled to talk is in no meaningfull way a post-dolphin, it is still a dolphin.

The post- prefix presuposes a chronological posteriori point of view, and you can not confirm the veracity of that point of view until you reach it.

In other words you can not call something posthuman until reaching posthumanity and drawing a line, or transhuman until you transcend humanity and can draw the line. The post-adolescent and post-feudalism examples work because they are chronologically in the past and we are arbitrarily drawing a line. Someone in the future might draw the line elsewhere.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#377
post #210

We currently have a massive chunk of society who are losing their collective minds about people engaging in the very early iterations of transhumanism—transgender folks. I still regularly encounter people who are spitting angry against transgender folks and then later in the conversation will completely unironically talk about how much they love the cyberpunk genre. Not many of them realize they would be the weird cu…

Cyberpunk as a genre generally depicts as a technologically advanced dystopia. One can find the setting interesting but not desirable, just as people find post-apocalyptic zombie plagues fascinating but wouldn’t actually want to experience it.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think that would fantastic and fun. Who wouldn’t want to see what life is like on the other side?

95 to 99% of the population...

But if there was no real downside in terms of social stigma, and it was totally reversible? You don’t think most people would want to switch just out of curiosity?

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a big fraction of the anti-transgender movement is not against adults modifying their bodies, but against a) children modifying their bodies, b) persons with modified bodies claiming to be the opposite gender thanks to their modifications (or indeed, before any modification). They probably would have much less of a problem with an adult replacing one of their eyes with an x-ray camera or whatever.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Argue based on some extreme strawman

You yourself are arguing based on an extreme straw man here. Does that make you a neo-nazi as well?

Interestingly, I think you illustrate another important factor in anti-transgender resistance: a subsection of proponents are extremely quick on the trigger to accuse any disagreement of being bigoted, hateful, violent, and, as you have, fascist. This does nothing but drive increasingly negative perceptions towards transgenderism as a concept, both among those who were skeptical and among those who were initially neutral towards the concept.

I suggest that if you truly want to further your cause, you should find a way to interact with those who don’t agree with you that doesn’t involve accusing them of being a nazi.

Re: What ever happened to the transhumanists?

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> undergo their AGAB puberty against their will It's also weird mental gymnastics like this that people are pushing against. For anyone who is not familiar with the acronym, AGAB means "Assigned Gender At Birth", and is push back against the fact that we broadly lump all people into either the male / female camp when they are born. It can be useful when talking about gender norms, etc – which are discussions worth ha…

Denying puberty blockers, which are easily produced, known to be acceptably safe, and can prevent physical changes, is forcing teens through a harmful puberty against their will.

Puberty blockers aren’t known to be safe. The FDA just issued a new series of warnings on blockers in the last month due to the severe side-effects being experienced by children on them, including brain swelling and vision loss: https://abcnews4.com/amp/news/nation-world/fda-warns-puberty...
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