George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf • Hacker News Board

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#371

Post by germinalphrase » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:51 PM UTC

chriscappuccio wrote: post #247

Ansil849 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The answer to this is sports. War is competition through violence. Absolutely not. Sports is competition through violence, as well. Watch a game of American football, or ice hockey, or basketball for that matter and be able to say otherwise with a straight face. The answer is cooperative, not competitive, activities.

For people wired for competition, that's no answer.

Aldous Huxley’s perspective was that competition is driven by the desire to dominate. We can play games - like wrestling or war - that cause us to dominate other people. Or, we can play games - like rock climbing - that cause us to dominate ourselves.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#372

Post by ClumsyPilot » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:52 PM UTC

flipbrad wrote: post #179

superb-owl wrote: post #9

> Hitler, because in his own joyless mind he feels it with exceptional strength, knows that human beings don’t only want comfort, safety, short working-hours, hygiene, birth-control and, in general, common sense; they also, at least intermittently, want struggle and self-sacrifice This fact has been the downfall of every utopian ideology, and ignoring creates a vacuum that fascist regimes readily fill. I wonder what…

It's also an observation made by Agent Smith in the Matrix. It's even observable in the schoolyard, with kids subjecting themselves and others to utterly avoidable drama, for no discernible reason

Kids do it for the same reason politicians do it - there is an entire social hierarchy and jockeying for the position of the top dog that lets you boss around others. All psycologically healthy people can easilly tell that apart from 'real' conflict, as most kids do not try to open each-other's skull with a rock.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#373

Post by pessimizer » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:54 PM UTC

rr808 wrote: post #68

Does anyone know why Hitler hated Stalin and communism so much? The article alludes to how Russia was always the main target, and he was friends with industrialists, but I've never seen a good reason why.

Hitler was a nationalist, the Communists were internationalists. Communists wanted to improve the lot of people, Hitler wanted to improve the lot of the German people. A random German could become a Communist, but a random Communist would never spontaneously turn into a German.

So the same reason why all kings hate universal philosophies/religions. They bypass border defenses.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#374

Post by ClumsyPilot » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:55 PM UTC

Ansil849 wrote: post #219

whoopdedo wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to this is sports. War is competition through violence. When you remove the violence you get peaceful competition. It satisfies the tribal urge to fight things different than you, but also encourages healthy behaviors. Respect for your opponent. Accepting loss. Recognizing your weaknesses and working to improve them.

> The answer to this is sports. War is competition through violence. Absolutely not. Sports is competition through violence, as well. Watch a game of American football, or ice hockey, or basketball for that matter and be able to say otherwise with a straight face. The answer is cooperative, not competitive, activities.

> Absolutely not. Sports is competition through violence, as well. Watch a game of American football, or ice hockey

And golf, the worst one of them all!

Also horse riding, Javalin throwing, etc. Mixed bag

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#375

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:55 PM UTC

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #240

Orwell omitted a few details: Hitler never had a majority in the Reichstag/german parliament - he benefited from the enmity between the Social democrats and the Communist. I mean a popular front, like in France of 1936 would have stopped them. The German soial dems and communist were mortal enemies, because the social dems shot a lot of communists in the aftermath of the Kapp putsch. Also Hitler had the massive suppo…

[deleted]

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#376

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:56 PM UTC

mikaeluman wrote: post #335

Just have to admit to being impressed by how succinct and clear yet deep this writing was. Easy to read and understand, and certainly gets the point across.

[deleted]

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#377

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:56 PM UTC

Bud wrote: post #349

Very timely post given the threat of the fascist movement in the US right now. Especially interesting that Orwell mentions the right to birth control, since that, too, is now being threatened and destroyed in the US. Orwell understood the link.

[deleted]

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#378

Post by aqsalose » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:57 PM UTC

dalbasal wrote: post #344

moritzwarhier wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I agree with you. I don't think that the integrity of elections and democracy are the main point of this essay. Orwell wrote a lot about authoritarianism, and as you say, "communism" was the prime example at the time. What he hints at here is not only the fragility of democracy. It's about the fragility of civilization. It's about the "will to power" as defined by Nietzsche, and the power of belief systems, a…

I must disagree. Orwell is not the bible, or an if-by-whiskey politician. Everybody reads him differently because they're combining hearsay, random quotes and attributions. If you read Orwell's essays or articles directly, he's extremely clear and unambiguous. The fact that people think Orwell agrees with them despite having polar opposite views is a testament to people's laziness, not Orwell's interpretability. On c…

True, Orwell has a worldview (though it evolves over time) and it connects his thoughts if you pick up a collection of his essays and study them systematically. But one does not need to agree with everything to find agreement with some particular elements and thoughts.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#379

Post by ClumsyPilot » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:59 PM UTC

scarier wrote: post #254

landryraccoon wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eh, war is simply fun. Well an idealized version of war that’s designed to glorify it could be fun. Is actual war fun? Is the Ukraine war fun? I doubt it’s fun for any of the participants. It’s not fun for Ukrainian soldiers, it’s not fun for Russian soldiers, and it’s not fun for Russian or Ukrainian civilians. Maybe it’s fun for some onlookers that like to cheer and spectate, but I would argue that speaks more to…

Experiences in war vary greatly, and feelings about them are complicated and conflicted. I've met many people who genuinely seemed to enjoy it. This article nails it: https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a28718/why-men-lo...

Strong or weak, in the long run all of them break down. All, that is to say, of those who are initially sane. For, ironically enough, the only people who can hold up indefinitely under the stress of modern war are psychotics. Individual insanity is immune to the consequences of collective insanity

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#380

Post by mdtancsa » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:59 PM UTC

I am surprised no one has mentioned Paul Bloom's "Sweet Spot". He looks at the psychology behind chosen pain / suffering / struggle (e.g. running a marathon ) https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/56922622-the-sweet-sp...