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Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

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Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#371

Post by q1w2 »

bilbo0s wrote: post #358
q1w2 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does China build 24 Gen III+ reactors in 10 years, and we spend billions in court arguing about environmental reviews. We F ourselves because we don't allow construction companies to do their jobs.

It's not the environmentalism that gets us. In fact even if there were no environmental rules or any other regulations at all, we'd still have Vogtie in the mess it's in. Construction costs money and time. Metallurgy costs money and time. And on and on and on. I doubt we could build a reactor for less than USD5 Billion even with no regulations at all. This stuff takes time, and if you don't get it right, the damn thi…

I would advocate the government to protect nuclear plant construction from frivolous litigations, environmental rereviews, and local political challenges, as well as reopen the storage facility in Nevada.

The construction isn't the big cost - it's all the nonsense that we do to interfere with those trying to build the plants.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#372

Post by [deleted] »

mythrwy wrote: post #360
btilly wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You absolutely DON'T understand what is going on there. The President of Ukraine is one of those Russian speaking Ukrainians that you're talking about. Why don't you ask him whether he would prefer to be part of Ukraine or Russia? According to polls, Russian speaking Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to be in an independent Ukraine. And the longer the fighting goes on, the stronger that support gets. Strip away Russian…

Ok, so the breakaway Republics secretly wish to join the West but Dennis Pushilin is holding them hostage. Ridiculous. I would advise against compounded the many many bad moves that have been made so far but it's free world. What I stated is historical and geopolitical fact. Without (near as I can tell) much bias. It's not propaganda, it's the truth. Yes, Russia has traditionally been an expansionist power. Yes, they…

[deleted]

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#373

Post by ceejayoz »

nathias wrote: post #313
frostburg wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those goalposts are moving quickly. "It's impossible" -> "It's too costly" -> "The wrong people are supposedly footing the cost (without considering the gigantic externalities)" -> "I just want Russia to win"

I never said it is impossible, it's 1. immoral (sanctions are only against civilians) 2. idiotic (destroy your economy for a symbolic gesture) 3. paid by the poorest It is possible to dislike all empires you know.

> sanctions are only against civilians

This is a very silly assertion.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#374

Post by _kbh_ »

mythrwy wrote: post #326
nisa wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it's not bullshit. I wish it was - read the summary of the OSCE report: https://osce.usmission.gov/response-to-moscow-mechanism-repo... It's even worse.

Yep. The Russians are posting the same kind of thing for their populations to consume. I fully believe neither. Here is what I do know. As of last week less then 5,000 Ukrainian civilians have been killed so far in the campaign. Contrast that with the US did during Iraq, or even in Raqqa. Was that genocide? No, it was just we didn't care. Which is pretty disturbing especially now as we try to proclaim moral high grou…

> Have bad things happened? Yes. It's a war. Have Russian soldiers done some bad things? Almost certainly. Is there widespread or systemic murder of civilians and rape by Russian troops?.

They literally ask for permission to rape the Ukrainians from their partners.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-rape-russian-soldier-wife-by...

They literally executed civilians in Bucha.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre

If you want to learn more about the Russians armed forces sexual crimes in Ukraine you can find a depressingly large article here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_violence_in_the_2022_Ru...

> This is not genocide either and false flags and exaggerations abound on all sides.

It is literally genocide per the UN definition of the word.

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Killing members of the group;

Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Russians are easily doing at least the last (forced transfer of children) and are arguably doing the first, and second based on the terrible conditions they leave the cities they level in leaving the Ukrainians to die in the street.

> No, that is not happening. And it makes sense as it would be counterproductive to Russia's aims.

The rape and deportation of locals to Russia is par for the course for the USSR's and Russia's conflicts. They did the exact same thing in Chechnya. If you want to learn more about the terrible crimes that Russia has committed in Ukraine and past wars (like Chechnya) look up what a 'filtration camp' is.

This isn't counterproductive to Russia's aims, it _is_ one of Russias aims.

> In short. Unadulterated bullshit.

In short, it's the Russian army doing Russian army things, at this point it seems they are incapable of conducting wars without committing a tonne of war crimes.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#375

Post by btilly »

mythrwy wrote: post #360
btilly wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You absolutely DON'T understand what is going on there. The President of Ukraine is one of those Russian speaking Ukrainians that you're talking about. Why don't you ask him whether he would prefer to be part of Ukraine or Russia? According to polls, Russian speaking Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to be in an independent Ukraine. And the longer the fighting goes on, the stronger that support gets. Strip away Russian…

Ok, so the breakaway Republics secretly wish to join the West but Dennis Pushilin is holding them hostage. Ridiculous. I would advise against compounded the many many bad moves that have been made so far but it's free world. What I stated is historical and geopolitical fact. Without (near as I can tell) much bias. It's not propaganda, it's the truth. Yes, Russia has traditionally been an expansionist power. Yes, they…

It is so ridiculous that you can read https://www.jhuapl.edu/Content/documents/ARIS_LittleGreenMen... for an unclassified report from the US government about Russia's disinformation campaign and the Russian special forces with no insignia who showed up and got the nickname "little green men".

You can read https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/193514/Nuclear%20Backed%20%E2%... for a Polish report on the same, and how Russia used nuclear posturing to keep the world from more emphatically calling Russia on its brazen lies.

Apparently the conclusions of multiple organizations, ranging from widely respected NGOs to national governments, seem ridiculous to you. That does not mean that they are ridiculous. It merely means that you've accepted a dose of Russian disinformation. Which they've been very competent at packaging.

But no, you just keep repeating propaganda lines and claiming that sourced statements are ridiculous. While offering no sources for your claims, and ignoring a variety of sources that you have been provided.

Lies do not become fact merely by being repeated enough. And Russian lies about spontaneous uprisings and Ukrainian atrocities do not become fact simply because you can't accept that those uprisings were conducted by Russian soldiers, and the shelling of Ukrainian civilians in 2014 began with Russian artillery operating on Russian territory. Confirmed by ballistics, satellite photos, and testimony from the people who were shelled.

Sources that you currently believe which say otherwise should be viewed with suspicion. Because they are lying to you.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#376

Post by _kbh_ »

mythrwy wrote: post #350
idiotsecant wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem really defensive about this for some reason.

That seems to be a veiled accusation. Maybe you have heard about Russian bots on TV or something. Let me clarify my motives for you. I am not happy with the approach the West has taken in towards this conflict. Most particularly the coup in 2014 and the urging of non settlement early. It has cost the lives of thousands of young Ukrainian men. And for very little purpose. The formerly Russian/ high Russian population…

> I am not happy with the approach the West has taken in towards this conflict. Most particularly the coup in 2014 and the urging of non settlement early. It has cost the lives of thousands of young Ukrainian men. And for very little purpose. The formerly Russian/ high Russian population areas are going back to Russia. Full stop. This was extremely obvious from the beginning. There was an equitable path forward early, even the return of formerly Russian territories did not have to happen. But the West has become blind and stupid as well as belligerent. Reality is going to smack them squarely in the face soon I think and no amount of propaganda will prevent it.

All of Ukraine, will go back to Ukraine, this includes Crimea. The Russians will leave or die, the Ukrainians have only just started getting HIMARS and M270s and they are already slaughtering Russian ammo depots and command and control centres.

When the NASAMS turn up the Russian missiles and planes will start falling out of the sky at a much higher rate. Then the net that these two systems provide will expand out as the Ukrainians push back.

Russias army doctrine is setup in such a way that practically everything is centralised, its why they occupied the same airfield over 20 times, even though the Ukrainians kept attacking it. This centralised doctrine is highly suspect ile to weapons like HIMARs and M270s as they target the bases and depots that the Russians are working from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Chornobaivka_attacks

The easiest way to save the most lives in this conflict is to get Russia to leave Ukraine as soon as possible.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#377

Post by adrianN »

belorn wrote: post #259
skrause wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat pumps are not an alternative in the next few years because there are not enough available on the market. I know someone who wanted to buy one for his house in Germany and the waiting list is more than 1-2 years right now.

Couldn't German industry produce more of them? Heat pumps seems like a technology which isn't import dependent in the way that natural gas is, especially if the government were there to help with funding.

It takes a while to spin up production. It also takes a while to find and train a sufficient number of people to can install them. It also takes a while to increase the supply of electricity so that we have enough power for tens of millions of heat pumps running all winter.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#378

Post by adrianN »

XCSme wrote: post #203
xyzzyz wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe, much fewer people live in houses, and thanks to the dense, walkable cities they enjoy, they have much fewer roof and yard space to put the panels. Also, unlike US, most of Europe doesn’t have huge swaths of hot and sunny plains that are currently not used for anything valuable. Look at the satellite view of Germany, France or Poland: it’s all farms, with occasional forests.

I do live in Europe and lived in various European countries, that being said the apartment buildings could also have a similar solution (their own solar panel/wind turbine/geothermal) OR simply do that in a more localized way (each city has their own solar/wind farms). Combine this with more regulations regarding energy saving/consumption (promote more efficient electric devices). In the end I see it as having multip…

You need a lot of PV per person if you want to satisfy all their primary energy needs. On the order of 150sqm. Apartment buildings don't have enough roof space to be self-sufficient.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#379

Post by adrianN »

Gravityloss wrote: post #23

Unfortunately Brunsbüttel terminal only finally got the go ahead in January 2022 and it will take 3.5 years to build. It's anyway a good alternative source. https://www.gem.wiki/Brunsb%C3%BCttel_LNG_Terminal Increasing insulation and installing and building more heat pumps are obvious ways to save on gas. Italy used some big EU subsidies to pay 100% of people's home and house renovations. Would something like that be…

Berlin still has some 25000 street lanterns that run on gas. Each of them burns enough gas to heat an apartment.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#380

Post by mythrwy »

btilly wrote: post #375
mythrwy wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so the breakaway Republics secretly wish to join the West but Dennis Pushilin is holding them hostage. Ridiculous. I would advise against compounded the many many bad moves that have been made so far but it's free world. What I stated is historical and geopolitical fact. Without (near as I can tell) much bias. It's not propaganda, it's the truth. Yes, Russia has traditionally been an expansionist power. Yes, they…

It is so ridiculous that you can read https://www.jhuapl.edu/Content/documents/ARIS_LittleGreenMen... for an unclassified report from the US government about Russia's disinformation campaign and the Russian special forces with no insignia who showed up and got the nickname "little green men". You can read https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/193514/Nuclear%20Backed%20%E2%... for a Polish report on the same, and how Russia u…

There are no breakaway republics? The majority of people in Crimea did not wish to rejoin Russia? All people on what is (formerly now) Ukraine territory were happy with the post coup Ukrainian government? Is that what you are saying?

If not, what exactly of my point do you take issue with? The claims on Russia geo strategical intent? The history of invasions into Russia through Ukraine in fairly recent times? That Crimea is not historically Russian?

These are all facts my friend. Not propaganda.

I wish you would take a more rational and less emotional view of the situation but I can't say I'd do differently in your circumstance. I am concerned where the irrationality leads however. It has so far caused nothing but trouble for Ukraine. And the trouble is spreading.

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