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Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

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Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#371

The utterly inefficient and overpriced Canadian telecoms exist only because we allow one specific behavior: 1. A new local player comes to town, builds their own infrastructure (e.g. connects one building to fiber) and starts offering competitive service. 2. Rogers/Shaw/Bell/Telus immediately offer better terms for the residents of that building. 3. The competitor runs out of money and leaves. 4. The telecoms revert…

why not fix the bigger problem instead. that politician can be « on telecom payroll ».

we can all agree politicians are supposed to represent the population of the country not the company and their board of directors.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

with the massive property price increases that have taken place Canada has become even more mediocre than ever before. With the increases we've seen some movement out of Toronto and Vancouver areas into other areas of the country, driving up prices even more. Young people are basically out of luck in terms of hopes of ever owning property. I know multiple immigrants who are talking about returning to their previous c…

the thing is they blame immigrants but won't do anything against the real driver of housing unaffordability, the collusion of regulators and corporations offering large liquidity to housing market. its breaking apart. the city of vancouver is broke and basic services are being scaled back. theres also a large brain drain here. only idiots work for vancouver startups/companies that tries to gaslight you that sunshine…

It's not about vancouver. Everyone who wants to live in vancouver knows what they're getting into. It's the fact that at the current rate of immigration they're adding a small city worth of people every single year into the middle of a healthcare service crisis, a housing crisis, an infrastructure and services crisis, etc, and there are no plans to deal with any of those issues.

Of course there's a brain drain going on, but in terms of the average canadian that's not the issue. the issue is that Canada's immigration policy far outpaces its ability to provide for canadians and immigrants, and the government doesn't care that their immigration policy is seriously injuring the quality of life for people already living in canada.

It doesn't affect the people in government because their politics makes questioning immigration targets and policies verboten and you could be ejected from polite society if you do. If you have a problem with their policies and the massive crisis its introduced to the country its obviously because of racism, right?

It literally has nothing to do with vancouver on its own.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#373
Interac.

This outage was eye-opening. You’d think that Interac (a prolific payment method for using your bank account to pay for products that hit the scene early enough to get entrenched in Canadian habits) would be infrastructure-agnostic, but it’s clear that they are extremely dependent on Rogers’ network. All Interac was down. Places still processed credits cards as normal, the machines still worked, and it didn’t matter what ISP was used by any particular store.

I do not understand how they were comfortable floating billions in transactions over a network with a single choke point.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#374

The utterly inefficient and overpriced Canadian telecoms exist only because we allow one specific behavior: 1. A new local player comes to town, builds their own infrastructure (e.g. connects one building to fiber) and starts offering competitive service. 2. Rogers/Shaw/Bell/Telus immediately offer better terms for the residents of that building. 3. The competitor runs out of money and leaves. 4. The telecoms revert…

I also remember Air Canada or WestJet doing the same to some small air company offering cheap flights from Kelowna (?), but I cannot find the news piece. Does anybody here have a better memory than myself?

The airport in Kitchener has a deal where an airline is offered exclusive rights to a new route out of the airport for, I think, two years. Westjet/Swoop was recently throwing up a storm in the media over this when Flair took advantage of the deal, calling it anti-competitive. Never mind that they had, and still have, access to the same deal.

The reality is that they were only interested in running those routes as long as another airline was. YKF has been down this road before.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#375
post #214

I don't understand how this is not on CNN/BBC news. This isn't the top news at the moment but significant .. I don't know if people in other countries know how this feels. People are saying this is pre-1990 .. but it is not really. People don't have landlines any more .. all our media is streamed via Internet. Stores can't take payments or orders. People can't call Ubers/taxis Millions of people don't have cellular.…

Here are some major non-Canadian outlets with coverage: BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62102223 NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/08/world/americas/rogers-int... Reuters (doesn't really count, because HQ is in Toronto): https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/rogers-commun... NPR: https://www.npr.org/2022/07/08/1110500480/rogers-canada-majo... Bloomberg: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/ar…

Reuters, the news organization, is headquartered in London. Thomson Reuters, the media conglomerate that owns it, is headquartered in Toronto.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#376
Canada's main issue is that we've allowed duopoly on ALL telecom (i.e. we essentially have 2 major national communications networks encompassing all forms of telecom, including phone, TV, cell phone, internet etc.)

Rogers is one of those networks, and it basically covers 30-40% of the country's communications.

There are a few smaller regional players, such as Shaw, Cogeco, Videotron etc. I think we might be the only developed country that's allowed this. I know in the US, there are 5 major mobile networks, some of who offer internet etc., but there are major internet providers separate from the mobile network providers.

The reason this has happened, is because building networks is really expensive making it so that being a regional provider is a tough business, and the 3 major companies have played the laws to their advantage. They've done acquisitions over time, and used the rules around foreign investing to block a lot of major development in 3rd and 4th networks from happening.

This is why the Rogers/Shaw deal should be blocked and the government needs to allow foreign investment to be able to come in and build out networks.

This problem can only be solved in 1 of 2 ways, and only through regulation unfortunately: - A complete overhaul of our rules which will allow foreign investment in our communications networks in Canada - A break up of the 2 networks

The second is not likely to happen. Rogers/Bell/Telus are some of the wealthiest companies in the world, and are at the top in terms of deep pockets in Canada. They will essentially fight the government on any sort of attempt to break them up and handily win.

The government has a much better shot at changing the rules to allow foreign investment, but they don't want to do it. The reason that's the case is because the leadership of the telecom companies has many shared members with prominent politicians, and also outright owns all forms of media in the country except for CBC, Post Media, and Corus.

Post Media is a known right-leaning org and Corus is effectively owned by Shaw, so their sway in the country's politics is not as big as Bell Media and Rogers Media who both own much bigger networks.

That means that they can run a very effective smear campaign against any politician or part who dares to allow foreign competition to enter Canada.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say that? I'm quite happy paying what I do renting in Vancouver. I usually find that people who actively want out of BC either desperately want to own property and can't, don't have any hobbies that suit the west coast, or can't make friends

Quoted post unavailable.

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Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened: Wind Mobile. They couldn't immediately build infrastructure across the entire country, so IIRC you were "roaming" outside a few major urban centers. However, I believe they also had unlimited US roaming (much better than the big three). I expected more uptake since it would have been a better deal for most Canadians in those urban centers, but I think there's a subtle bias against taking these kinds of…

They never really expanded close to enough. People didn't want to be roaming when they went to the cottage or camping or whatever and even then the urban areas served were still too concentrated and small. I think had they focused on southern Ontario or BC and expanded from there rather than aiming to hit the all the big metros first they might have done better.

Decisions are made at the margins. It’s always possible to look back and say “they should have done X, and they would have succeed.” It possible that there were many factors, but in my mind no minor change to the strategy would have helped. Had they done what you suggest, I’m sure the respond would have been that they targeted too small a market, or they didn’t cater to folks traveling between major cities frequently.

IIRC Wind was offering unlimited plans at 50% the price of a mediocre plan on major providers. You could have hours of roaming calls and still come out ahead (and this is in the edge case, where you happen to go camping that month). Most things being equal, Canadians broadly prefer to pay more to have a sure thing. It’s not a bad instinct, but it has consequences to how industry is shaped in the long term.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a lot of experience in both places. Americans may think think they do, but I don’t think so. As bad as Comcast and others are in the USA, I have found them to be far more efficient and competitive than Rogers or Bell in Canada. Same for banks in Canada. It’s unbelievable what they do and get away with. And airlines. Rather, Airline. I believe there’s a cultural element here: Canadians are more risk adverse and…

> And airlines. Rather, Airline. I would dispute this one, only because in addition to Air Canada (fleet size 312), Westjet does exist (fleet size 162). And the other regional airlines offer (-ed, prepandemic) some price/service competition. Comparisons to the US aren't as useful with airlines as with some other industries due to population differences.

Yeah, I thought about Westjet and decided that I wouldn’t quite call them a national competitor. I hope they continue to grow, both because I like Westjet and competition helps everyone. There’s a reason Air Canada’s unofficial slogan “we’re not happy until you’re not happy” is widely known.
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