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Fresh – Next-gen web framework

fresh.deno.dev

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Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#375

Post by kube-system »

epalm wrote: post #373

A bit off topic here, but can anyone identify which documentation tool this is? https://fresh.deno.dev/docs/getting-started/adding-interacti... It's very clean and simple, I like it.

Looks like they're doing it bespoke:

https://github.com/lucacasonato/fresh/pull/108/files#diff-27...

Although the way it's implemented seems similar to mkdocs.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#377

Post by chrischen »

csmpltn wrote: post #200
chrischen wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowing what it is now, describing it that way makes total sense... but it only works for people after knowing what it is... kind of like an inside joke. For anyone wondering what it means: it ships only the JS for select components (usually ones that have some sort of client-side interactivity, such as the incrementing counter on their demo page), so it only has to hydrate that part (where hydration is reconciling t…

I'm not an Uncle Bob fan by any stretch of the imagination, but he wrote a somewhat famous article about this phenomenon: http://blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-bob/2014/06/20/MyLawn.html With each new wave - we get people that either lack the time, the willpower or the conditions to understand what came before them (the ground they're standing on), and this is how we end up rediscovering things every 2-3 years. It's much…

You’re only looking at the outputs or end result and from that perspective React is just going to put out what is very similar to the “DHTML” stuff back then. At the end of the day everything is still just pushing HTML to browsers.

What React introduces is functional composition to application design (if you do it right at least), and the main benefit of this is in maintainability, scalability, and reusability. For most simple apps this benefit can be completely moot, which is why some can feel the setup or learning of a new paradigm for seemingly no benefit can be a regression.

In fact if you wanted to use React in the same way that PHP was used a decade ago, you still can, and it isn’t any more difficult to do so. You just end up with much less maintainable code. You can render React server side just like PHP, and either mount dynamic client side interactive components purely on the client side just like the “good old days,” or you can also render them server side and take advantage of client side hydration at the component level (like the previous method but you also get an initial server render). While this sounds complex, it really is just about as complex as making a server rendered PHP with some interactive JS bits, but just adding some new words to describe the process.

The goal of new React features like server components is to bring the maintainability of functional composition and get this optimization for free while still being able to define your UI in terms of reusable functions.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#378

Post by jollybean »

lucacasonato wrote: post #355
jollybean wrote: post #19

"Island based client hydration" Is this ling that I'm missing? Or a lark?

https://jasonformat.com/islands-architecture/

Thanks that's it.

I'm just balking a bit with the word 'hydration' entering into some kind of normative lexicon.

I think there is probably a better word for that.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#379

Post by chrischen »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #259
csmpltn wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an Uncle Bob fan by any stretch of the imagination, but he wrote a somewhat famous article about this phenomenon: http://blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-bob/2014/06/20/MyLawn.html With each new wave - we get people that either lack the time, the willpower or the conditions to understand what came before them (the ground they're standing on), and this is how we end up rediscovering things every 2-3 years. It's much…

I’ve been developing for the web since, well not quite 30 years ago (PHP isn’t even 30!), but let’s say 25 years ago. I’ve used so much different tech in those years that I have a pretty good sense of it, and I even contributed to the development of both PHP and React. And you are totally off base. Modern frameworks are far superior for building modern web apps than older serverside tech. Demands have changed and so…

I agree with you SSR is an optimization but I wouldn’t call it a fad. Take a page that is static for 99% or even 100% of all users—it wouldn’t make sense to have distributed rendering at scale by each client. Instead SSR allows the server to render once and then just serve from the cache. Not only does it speed up the page for the user it saves energy. So I would classify it as a fundamental optimization here to stay.
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